Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailisthebestcom> wrote:

> > [global settings, background, cup, and tex unmodified from original,
> > snipping to make post shorter]
> >
>
> Well, I did change rgb with rgbft on the texture :)
>
> PS: you're posting in HTML again.

not anymore!  My Notes died for good.  I'll keep with the proxy-blocked web
interface that happens to work once in a while.  Unless you can zip and mail me
thunderbird, since I was too lazy to remail or save it to thumbdrive it during
weekend... :P

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Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailisthebestcom> wrote:

> > It all began with a challenge in a brazilian forum, when some guy claimed this
> > scene:
> > http://200.213.105.41/greysilica/exemplos/cjcopojateado.png
> >
> > took him 48 hours to render with Blender internal renderer.
> >
> > Surely something was wrong, or so I thought.  Well, in the region between the
> > bottom of second row cups and the top of first row cups, render time was about
> > 11 minutes a line!  It is all about refractions, normals and fresnel
> > reflections.  40 hours total on a P4 2.66 with povray 3.6.1...
> >
>
> I forgot to mention: I definitely prefer your image than the original :)

you povray fanboy! :P

anyway, I felt the colors ended up a bit washed up.  But I definitely liked the
reflections a lot more.  His just show the closer cups.  I wonder if he did
limit it somehow, just for the reflections, no refractions.  I wonder if it'd
be possible for us to have a max_trace_level separate for reflections and
refractions...

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> Nicolas Alvarez <nic### [at] gmailisthebestcom> wrote:
>> I forgot to mention: I definitely prefer your image than the original :)
> 
> you povray fanboy! :P

Fanboy me? It's not like I'm a Pov-addict or anything.

Oh wait, my domain name is povaddict.com.ar.

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Beauty just takes time... At least, they look very beautiful.

Sven




"nemesis" <nam### [at] gmailcom> schrieb im Newsbeitrag 
news:web.479d2dce9dfdbbcc571699ff0@news.povray.org...
> so, any free time in your hands?  want to put that quad core to stress 
> with
> povray 3.7beta?  If you're, try the little scene below.  With +AM2 +A0.04 
> +J1.0
> 1024X768 on a P4 2.66, it just brought my PC to a crawl for the whole 
> weekend!
> It all began with a challenge in a brazilian forum, when some guy claimed 
> this
> scene:
> http://200.213.105.41/greysilica/exemplos/cjcopojateado.png
>
> took him 48 hours to render with Blender internal renderer.
>
> Surely something was wrong, or so I thought.  Well, in the region between 
> the
> bottom of second row cups and the top of first row cups, render time was 
> about
> 11 minutes a line!  It is all about refractions, normals and fresnel
> reflections.  40 hours total on a P4 2.66 with povray 3.6.1...
>
> I'm sure it's possible to optimize it with some no_image, no_shadow 
> trickery
> with doubles and no_reflection in the main cups, but I didn't thought of 
> it
> beforehand!
>
>
> global_settings { max_trace_level 40 }
>
> background { rgb 1 }
>
> #local cup =
> lathe { bezier_spline
> 48, //nr points
> /* 0*/ <0, 2.8571826>, <174.28571, 2.8571826>, <197.14286,2.8571826>,
> <197.14286,2.8571826>,
> /* 1*/ <197.14286, 2.8571826>, <197.14286, 2.8571826>, 
> <211.42857,-2.8571174>,
> <228.57143,14.285683>,
> /* 2*/ <228.57143, 14.285683>, <245.71429, 31.428583>, 
> <242.85714,85.714283>,
> <242.85714,85.714283>,
> /* 3*/ <242.85714, 85.714283>, <242.85714, 85.714283>, 
> <265.71429,80.000003>,
> <291.42857,105.71428>,
> /* 4*/ <291.42857, 105.71428>, <317.14286, 131.42857>, 
> <308.57143,108.57143>,
> <308.57143,185.71428>,
> /* 5*/ <308.57143, 185.71428>, <308.57143, 262.85714>, 
> <308.57143,742.85714>,
> <308.57143,742.85714>,
> /* 6*/ <308.57143, 742.85714>, <308.57143, 742.85714>, 
> <317.14286,737.14285>,
> <308.57143,754.28571>,
> /* 7*/ <308.57143, 754.28571>, <300, 771.42857>, <288.57143,780>,
> <280,768.57143>,
> /* 8*/ <280, 768.57143>, <271.42857, 757.14285>, <294.28571,165.71428>,
> <277.14286,148.57143>,
> /* 9*/ <277.14286, 148.57143>, <260, 131.42857>, <231.42857,131.42857>,
> <217.14286,105.71428>,
> /* 10*/ <217.14286, 105.71428>, <202.85714, 80.000003>, 
> <205.71429,54.285713>,
> <185.71429,45.714283>,
> /* 11*/ <185.71429, 45.714283>, <165.71429, 37.142883>, 
> <2.8571429,2.8571826>,
> <0,2.8571826>
>
> sturm
> scale y*.8
> scale 1/1000
> interior { ior 1.5 }
> hollow
> }
>
> #macro tex( col )
> pigment { rgb col }
> normal { bumps .1 scale .002 }
> finish { ambient .01 diffuse .4 brilliance 1.2
> specular .97 roughness .02
> metallic .1
> reflection { .2,.9 metallic .1 fresnel on exponent 1 }
> conserve_energy
> }
> #end
>
> union {
> plane { y 0 pigment { rgb 1 } finish { ambient .2 diffuse .6 } }
> object { cup translate 0 tex( <.7,.8,1,.8,.1> ) }
> object { cup translate z*.7 tex( <.9,.86,.4,.8,.1> ) }
> object { cup translate z*(.7+1.3) tex( <1,.96,.84,.8,.1> ) }
> object { cup translate x*.7 tex(<1,1,1,.8,.1> ) }
> object { cup translate x*.7+z*.7 tex(<.96,1,.67,.8,.1> )}
> object { cup translate x*.7+z*.7*2 tex(<.7,1,.7,.8,.1> ) }
> object { cup translate -x*.7 tex(<1,.6,.6,.1,.8> ) }
> object { cup translate -x*.7+z*(.0+1.3) tex(<.5,.5,.8,.1,.8> ) }
> object { cup translate -x*.7*2+z*(-.7+1.3) tex(<.7,1,.94,.1,.8> ) }
> light_source { 1.6*(4-z*8) 1.2 }
>
> rotate -x*30
> translate z*2.6-y/3+x*.1
> }
>
> light_source { -z*8 .7 shadowless }
>
> camera { angle 55
> //aperture .04 blur_samples 60 confidence 1 focal_point y/3+z*2
> }
>

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nemesis nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2008/01/27 20:20:
> so, any free time in your hands?  want to put that quad core to stress with
> povray 3.7beta?  If you're, try the little scene below.  With +AM2 +A0.04 +J1.0
> 1024X768 on a P4 2.66, it just brought my PC to a crawl for the whole weekend!
> It all began with a challenge in a brazilian forum, when some guy claimed this
> scene:
> http://200.213.105.41/greysilica/exemplos/cjcopojateado.png
> 
> took him 48 hours to render with Blender internal renderer.
> 
> Surely something was wrong, or so I thought.  Well, in the region between the
> bottom of second row cups and the top of first row cups, render time was about
> 11 minutes a line!  It is all about refractions, normals and fresnel
> reflections.  40 hours total on a P4 2.66 with povray 3.6.1...
> 
> I'm sure it's possible to optimize it with some no_image, no_shadow trickery
> with doubles and no_reflection in the main cups, but I didn't thought of it
> beforehand!
>
Just rendered here with 3.7.
LOT faster with +am2 +a0.3 at 1360*1024 AMD Athlon TBird 1400MHz.
Added adc_bailout 0.013.
Render time: 1:48:15.
Only thing, your glasses look much darker.

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
Documentation; The worst part of programming.

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Ric### [at] stjgovbr nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2008/01/28 11:06:
> 
>  > You have multiple reflections and refractions. That mean that you 
> have tons of
>  > rays to compute. Add the aa and the small bumps, you need lot of 
> subsampling =
>  > lot of time.
> 
> yes, but looking at the original scene for the first time, I'd never 
> have guessed it!
> 
> but you're right, there are rays passing through 3 cups with IOR and 
> normals, as well
> as reflecting off the other cups in the scene.  It's insanity squared!
> 
>  > Try adding adc_bailout 0.01 in the global_settings.
> 
> I'll try that.  As well as some no_image, no_shadow trickery...
> 
>  > It will cause a small decrease in quality that can go unnoticed, but 
> will
>  > accelerate things as the ray tracing will often stop much earlier.
> 
> And I didn't even go with media for blurry shadows, area_lights, 
> radiosity and caustics!  
> I wonder how much time it'd take in an unbiased renderer such as Indigo 
> or Luxrender...
Try replacing the pigment with fade_color and fade_distance. That kind of 
glasses are not coloured on the surface but in the mass.

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
For THIS I bought a computer?

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Alain <ele### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Just rendered here with 3.7.

whoa!

> LOT faster with +am2 +a0.3 at 1360*1024 AMD Athlon TBird 1400MHz.
> Added adc_bailout 0.013.
> Render time: 1:48:15.

you just punched me in the face!  And I liked it... :P

> Only thing, your glasses look much darker.

yeah, too many pigment interactions from everywhere going on.

Many thanks for adc_bailout tip.  I actually looked it up from max_trace_level
in the documentation, but they give the hint not to mess with it...

I also saw what you said about fade_power and fade_distance in the interior.
But I was afraid of it getting much worse to render...

well, now that you're feeling bold and adventurous, try it with area_light and
photons. And post the result! :)

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nemesis nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2008/01/28 15:21:
> Alain <ele### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
>> Just rendered here with 3.7.
> 
> whoa!
> 
>> LOT faster with +am2 +a0.3 at 1360*1024 AMD Athlon TBird 1400MHz.
>> Added adc_bailout 0.013.
>> Render time: 1:48:15.
> 
> you just punched me in the face!  And I liked it... :P
> 
>> Only thing, your glasses look much darker.
> 
> yeah, too many pigment interactions from everywhere going on.
> 
> Many thanks for adc_bailout tip.  I actually looked it up from max_trace_level
> in the documentation, but they give the hint not to mess with it...
>
adc_bailout is used to limit how deep the trace_level can go. If the 
contribution of a surface drop under that value, you assume that the actual 
result is "close enough" and stop checking any further.
Increasing it does reduce the quality of the render, but that reduction is often 
not noticeable in *most* cases if you don't increase it to much. adc_bailout 0.1 
is to big, adc_bailout 0.01 to 0.02 is usualy acceptable.

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those
entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it
into tyranny.
Thomas Jefferson

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Alain <ele### [at] netscapenet> wrote:

> adc_bailout is used to limit how deep the trace_level can go. If the
> contribution of a surface drop under that value, you assume that the actual
> result is "close enough" and stop checking any further.
> Increasing it does reduce the quality of the render, but that reduction is often
> not noticeable in *most* cases if you don't increase it to much. adc_bailout 0.1
> is to big, adc_bailout 0.01 to 0.02 is usualy acceptable.


adc_bailout 0.111     // larger number = faster

"acceptable"?
see img @ 32 minutes 5 secs with area_light
lost 2 glasses for additional speed


> --
> Alain
> -------------------------------------------------
> Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those
> entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it
> into tyranny.
> Thomas Jefferson

Sadly all too obvious today. Superman where are you now.

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Attachments:
Download 'glasses3.png' (131 KB)

Preview of image 'glasses3.png'

"alphaQuad" <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote:
> Alain <ele### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> > Increasing it does reduce the quality of the render, but that reduction is often
> > not noticeable in *most* cases if you don't increase it to much. adc_bailout 0.1
> > is to big, adc_bailout 0.01 to 0.02 is usualy acceptable.
>
>
> adc_bailout 0.111     // larger number = faster
>
> "acceptable"?
> see img @ 32 minutes 5 secs with area_light
> lost 2 glasses for additional speed

hmm, 32 minutes at, what, 640x480?  and no supersampling antialiasing?  Besides,
there doesn't even seem to be any shadows...

I'll play with it, but first I need to come up with a better bezier curve... :)

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