POV-Ray : Newsgroups : povray.binaries.images : Into the Wild Server Time
28 Mar 2024 13:19:42 EDT (-0400)
  Into the Wild (Message 11 to 20 of 26)  
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From: William F Pokorny
Subject: Re: Into the Wild
Date: 14 Aug 2020 07:34:41
Message: <5f3676d1$1@news.povray.org>
On 8/14/20 2:20 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> Op 13/08/2020 om 13:47 schreef William F Pokorny:
...
>>>
>>> The green image with a complex slope texture.
>>> The grey image with a simple pigment. I restarted three times there 
>>> too; can you see them? ;-)
>>>
>> I do indeed. Aside from the continuity on continuations issue those 
>> results look pretty good for quick vegetation, frosted vegetation. :-)
> 
> My original image seems to be definitely due to an uncontrolled change 
> to the code by me. I was misled by this present issue apparently.
> 
> Yes, this makes up for an interesting vegetation indeed. However, it is 
> not fast of course.
>>
>> I await the test scene.
> 
> Posted the scene in p.t.scene-files.
> 
Thank you.

Is it easy to post one or both of the simpler isosurface fuzzy 
vegetation scenes too. I was thinking I would start there over the 
complete scene.

Trying your scene currently in v3.8 master and the first thing I notice 
is the radiosity blocks on continuation appear to be generated just 
short, below the position where the render re-starts. Do you see 
something similar?

Aside: Suppose I would have expected those looking to continue renders 
to save radiosity results (photon results) to a file? Maybe I'm not 
running the right flags with your scene. I didn't look at it that 
closely as yet...

See the scene is using f_bicorn() which I dumped from povr so I have 
that too in the way of a quick 'is it the shadow cache bugs.' More if/as 
I figure more out.

Bill P.


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From: William F Pokorny
Subject: Re: Into the Wild
Date: 14 Aug 2020 07:48:20
Message: <5f367a04$1@news.povray.org>
On 8/14/20 7:34 AM, William F Pokorny wrote:
...
> See the scene is using f_bicorn() which I dumped from povr 
...
Ignore this bit. Just clicked this is me running my development povr2 
and not a correctly configured povr. I was picking up the wrong 
functions.inc which has f_bicorn in it.

Bill P.


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From: William F Pokorny
Subject: Re: Into the Wild
Date: 14 Aug 2020 09:18:17
Message: <5f368f19$1@news.povray.org>
On 8/14/20 7:34 AM, William F Pokorny wrote:
...
> 
> Is it easy to post one or both of the simpler isosurface fuzzy 
> vegetation scenes too. I was thinking I would start there over the 
> complete scene.
> 

Hold off. I now have something simpler running in povr showing 
differences on continuations, but seeing other issues too. Perhaps 
jitter related. Need to sort it out, but but render turns fast so 
hopefully can get to some better understanding.

Bill P.


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From: William F Pokorny
Subject: Re: Into the Wild
Date: 14 Aug 2020 10:16:35
Message: <5f369cc3$1@news.povray.org>
On 8/14/20 9:18 AM, William F Pokorny wrote:
> On 8/14/20 7:34 AM, William F Pokorny wrote:
> ...
> 
> Hold off. I now have something simpler running in povr showing 
> differences on continuations, but seeing other issues too. Perhaps 
> jitter related. Need to sort it out, but but render turns fast so 
> hopefully can get to some better understanding.
> 

OK. You found a continuation bug with radiosity (non saved).

Using my current povr and after turning jitter off somewhat easy to see 
you can use continuation when using just lights, but not with radiosity.

The top row in the attached image is a foliage like isosurface sphere 
which matches perfectly up to the first continuation. I stopped and 
restarted roughly every render block row. I used a multiplier of 15 for 
the isosurface image differences.

In the second row of the image I used a regular sphere, but used a 
multiplier of 60 for the image differences. The issue is there with all 
shapes, it's just harder to see on something like a sphere.

If I get fired up maybe I'll try saving radiosity samples (couldn't get 
it to work trying quickly...). An outside chance that might fix it, but 
given the circular patterns we see on the sphere, I suspect there is 
some sort of offset in the sampling pattern on continuation. A bug no 
matter saved samples or not - good find.

Bill P.


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Attachments:
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Preview of image 'continuestory.jpg'
continuestory.jpg


 

From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Into the Wild
Date: 15 Aug 2020 02:20:02
Message: <5f377e92@news.povray.org>
Op 14/08/2020 om 13:34 schreef William F Pokorny:
> Is it easy to post one or both of the simpler isosurface fuzzy 
> vegetation scenes too. I was thinking I would start there over the 
> complete scene.

Late but sorry, I should have been more explicit. Both isosurfaces 
Isoveg and Isorock are there at the bottom of the scene; just 
comment/uncomment the one you need.

> 
> Trying your scene currently in v3.8 master and the first thing I notice 
> is the radiosity blocks on continuation appear to be generated just 
> short, below the position where the render re-starts. Do you see 
> something similar?

Yes, but I assume that depends on the pretrace_end size. Change that to, 
e.g. 0.004, and the gap is much smaller, controlled by that size value.

> 
> Aside: Suppose I would have expected those looking to continue renders 
> to save radiosity results (photon results) to a file? Maybe I'm not 
> running the right flags with your scene. I didn't look at it that 
> closely as yet...

Well, I never save radiosity data (in contrast to photon data of course) 
so I would not know.

> 
> See the scene is using f_bicorn() which I dumped from povr so I have 
> that too in the way of a quick 'is it the shadow cache bugs.' More if/as 
> I figure more out.
> 
> Bill P.


-- 
Thomas


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Into the Wild
Date: 15 Aug 2020 02:22:32
Message: <5f377f28$1@news.povray.org>
Op 14/08/2020 om 16:16 schreef William F Pokorny:
> On 8/14/20 9:18 AM, William F Pokorny wrote:
>> On 8/14/20 7:34 AM, William F Pokorny wrote:
>> ...
>>
>> Hold off. I now have something simpler running in povr showing 
>> differences on continuations, but seeing other issues too. Perhaps 
>> jitter related. Need to sort it out, but but render turns fast so 
>> hopefully can get to some better understanding.
>>
> 
> OK. You found a continuation bug with radiosity (non saved).
> 
> Using my current povr and after turning jitter off somewhat easy to see 
> you can use continuation when using just lights, but not with radiosity.
> 
> The top row in the attached image is a foliage like isosurface sphere 
> which matches perfectly up to the first continuation. I stopped and 
> restarted roughly every render block row. I used a multiplier of 15 for 
> the isosurface image differences.
> 
> In the second row of the image I used a regular sphere, but used a 
> multiplier of 60 for the image differences. The issue is there with all 
> shapes, it's just harder to see on something like a sphere.
> 
> If I get fired up maybe I'll try saving radiosity samples (couldn't get 
> it to work trying quickly...). An outside chance that might fix it, but 
> given the circular patterns we see on the sphere, I suspect there is 
> some sort of offset in the sampling pattern on continuation. A bug no 
> matter saved samples or not - good find.
> 

Right! I shall try on my side to see if there is a difference when 
radiosity data is saved in the scene.

-- 
Thomas


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Into the Wild
Date: 15 Aug 2020 02:51:07
Message: <5f3785db$1@news.povray.org>
Op 15/08/2020 om 08:22 schreef Thomas de Groot:
> Right! I shall try on my side to see if there is a difference when 
> radiosity data is saved in the scene.
> 

Did a test: not better, maybe even worse!

-- 
Thomas


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Attachments:
Download 'continueissue_grey_2.jpg' (24 KB)

Preview of image 'continueissue_grey_2.jpg'
continueissue_grey_2.jpg


 

From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Into the Wild
Date: 15 Aug 2020 03:09:36
Message: <5f378a30$1@news.povray.org>
Op 15/08/2020 om 08:51 schreef Thomas de Groot:
> Op 15/08/2020 om 08:22 schreef Thomas de Groot:
>> Right! I shall try on my side to see if there is a difference when 
>> radiosity data is saved in the scene.
>>
> 
> Did a test: not better, maybe even worse!
> 

Question: /where/ is the radiosity data file saved??? I am unable to 
find it anywhere...

I assumed it was into the same folder as the scene.

-- 
Thomas


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: Into the Wild
Date: 15 Aug 2020 03:27:47
Message: <5f378e73@news.povray.org>
Op 15/08/2020 om 09:09 schreef Thomas de Groot:
> Op 15/08/2020 om 08:51 schreef Thomas de Groot:
>> Op 15/08/2020 om 08:22 schreef Thomas de Groot:
>>> Right! I shall try on my side to see if there is a difference when 
>>> radiosity data is saved in the scene.
>>>
>>
>> Did a test: not better, maybe even worse!
>>
> 
> Question: /where/ is the radiosity data file saved??? I am unable to 
> find it anywhere...
> 
> I assumed it was into the same folder as the scene.
> 

Well... Not sure what happens but somehow /reading/ (+RFI) makes the 
render to fail when restarting. I do not completely understand the use 
of RF from the explanation in the wiki.

I tested this time in version 3.7.1 with identical results as 3.8.

-- 
Thomas


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From: William F Pokorny
Subject: Re: Into the Wild
Date: 15 Aug 2020 05:42:57
Message: <5f37ae21$1@news.povray.org>
On 8/15/20 3:27 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> Op 15/08/2020 om 09:09 schreef Thomas de Groot:
>> Op 15/08/2020 om 08:51 schreef Thomas de Groot:
>>> Op 15/08/2020 om 08:22 schreef Thomas de Groot:
>>>> Right! I shall try on my side to see if there is a difference when 
>>>> radiosity data is saved in the scene.
>>>>
>>>
>>> Did a test: not better, maybe even worse!
>>>
>>
>> Question: /where/ is the radiosity data file saved??? I am unable to 
>> find it anywhere...
>>
>> I assumed it was into the same folder as the scene.
>>
> 
> Well... Not sure what happens but somehow /reading/ (+RFI) makes the 
> render to fail when restarting. I do not completely understand the use 
> of RF from the explanation in the wiki.
> 
> I tested this time in version 3.7.1 with identical results as 3.8.
> 
Thanks for digging. Remembering now something like radiosity's save and 
load got moved to flag/ini control (v3.7 to v3.8 ?) while the photon 
load and save did not.

Aside: I got no errors (or saved radiosity file) using save_file, 
load_file in the radiosity block which, in the moment, allowed me to 
think the changes and state were the other way around.

Aside 2: There is the +hr and vain pretrace radiosity stuff too. For 
exact image compares when running radiosity I've always had to drop back 
to one thread.

I'm not a big radiosity user, but I'll play a little with the flags 
while my coffee brews and post if I figure more out.

Bill P.


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