On 24.07.2017 20:27, omniverse wrote:
> Showing the render here that I was able to make using *your updated* bump_map
> file, along with the SDL I posted here before (including fixed normal
> statements).
> Replace both normal statements for outer and inner textures with this:
> normal { gradient y
> normal_map { /* 0.175 equates to 105/2 or balloon top (torus half vertical scale)
height from 0 */
>   [0.175 PositiveBump]
>   [0.175 NegativeBump]
> } // end normal_map
> scale <1,1.5*MyRadius,1> // rescale only y to fit whole balloon> 
> And I regret uploading my version of the bump_map in PNG while leaving the
> resolution size large, made almost 4 MB download file. Sorry!
> I did not use reflection and radiosity, and also removed the image_map to use
> only color rgb 1 which allows seeing only the bumpiness without any other visual
> effects other than light source shadowing.

Hi, thanks. I am seeing your two bump_map declarations, but not that you
specified the bump image. I tried to incorporate everything, but still
fail (now with error message):

 normal
 {
  gradient y
  normal_map
  {
   [ 0.175 PositiveBump ]
   [ 0.175 NegativeBump ]
  }
  bump_map { png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher -
Balloon - Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon BumpMap.png" map_type 1
once bump_size 150.0 }
  scale < 1.0, 1.5*MyRadius, 1.0 >
 }


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Am 25.07.2017 um 01:41 schrieb Sven Littkowski:
> Thanks a lot for your assistance, so far. But I admit, I am now irritated.
> 
> Did you see the bump image I posted inside the other group (GENERAL)
> with the same topic? Someone there told me to reduce the image size,
> make it 16bit, and increase the contrast between dark and bright areas
> there. I did that all. Still - no success.

I'm not sure what you are doing there. With the new bump map and using
the scene from your original post, the attached image is what I get
(after repairing broken comments and replacing the image_map with a
plain white pigment).

That looks like bumps to me. (Excessively strong ones, actually; try
`bump_size 10` or lower.)


You still have some residual issues:

- Contrary to my recommendation, you apparently did not re-generate the
image with higher contrast and bit depth, but rather just converted the
old image and blurred it a bit. This still leaves you with artefacts
from the original color banding.

- You are using `gamma 1.8` in a bump map. This indicates to me that
/something/ regarding gamma is not quite right: Either you didn't
understand what you were doing, or your bump map uses a poor encoding
scheme that gives you more precision in black areas than it does in
white areas. (To tell which of the two is the case, I'd have to know
more about how you created the bump map in the first place.)

- Your radiosity block does not contain a `normal on` statement. As a
consequence, if you turn on radiosity, you will not see any bumps in
areas that are lit only indirectly.

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Attachments:
Download 'test.png' (90 KB)

Preview of image 'test.png'

Am 25.07.2017 um 07:06 schrieb clipka:

> I'm not sure what you are doing there. With the new bump map and using
> the scene from your original post, the attached image is what I get
> (after repairing broken comments and replacing the image_map with a
> plain white pigment).

Oops, attached the wrong image: This one was generated with radiosity
enabled (and a `nornal on` statement). Without radiosity the image looks
pretty similar though.

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Sven Littkowski <I### [at] SvenLittkowskiname> wrote:
> On 24.07.2017 20:27, omniverse wrote:
> > Showing the render here that I was able to make using *your updated* bump_map
> > file, along with the SDL I posted here before (including fixed normal
> > statements).
> > Replace both normal statements for outer and inner textures with this:
> > normal { gradient y
> > normal_map { /* 0.175 equates to 105/2 or balloon top (torus half vertical scale)
height from 0 */
> >   [0.175 PositiveBump]
> >   [0.175 NegativeBump]
> > } // end normal_map
> > scale <1,1.5*MyRadius,1> // rescale only y to fit whole balloon>
> > And I regret uploading my version of the bump_map in PNG while leaving the
> > resolution size large, made almost 4 MB download file. Sorry!
> > I did not use reflection and radiosity, and also removed the image_map to use
> > only color rgb 1 which allows seeing only the bumpiness without any other visual
> > effects other than light source shadowing.
>
> Hi, thanks. I am seeing your two bump_map declarations, but not that you
> specified the bump image. I tried to incorporate everything, but still
> fail (now with error message):
>
>  normal
>  {
>   gradient y
>   normal_map
>   {
>    [ 0.175 PositiveBump ]
>    [ 0.175 NegativeBump ]
>   }
>   bump_map { png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher -
> Balloon - Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon BumpMap.png" map_type 1
> once bump_size 150.0 }
>   scale < 1.0, 1.5*MyRadius, 1.0 >
>  }

Oh. Yeah, you missed that from the whole SDL I posted at:

http://news.povray.org/web.59758a1a9f453b979c5d6c810%40news.povray.org

It's in the #declare statements for PositiveBump and NegativeBump before that
part.
I used my own file name so only that would need to be changed, otherwise you
have the correct 0.175 and 1.5*MyRadius in there.

You must remove your map_type 1 and bump_size 150.0 or else it will be
completely wrong for the way I did it. Reason why, the scale drastically
increases the surface normal deformation. You will notice I used only bump_size
0.1 so the object scale won't affect it as much.

Well, I say "correct" but I'm still wondering if I got it exactly right as
possible, or not.

And later I changed the torus to be taller because I thought it just looked
shaped better to me, not that you must change anything, by making scale
<1,0.5*1.5,1> (same as scale 0.75*y)
and changing to:

 normal_map { /* 0.175 equates to 105/2 or balloon top (torus half vertical
scale) height from 0 */
   [0.175*1.5 PositiveBump] // refit to rescaled torus height
   [0.175*1.5 NegativeBump]
 } // end normal_map
 scale <1,1.75*MyRadius,1> // rescale only y to fit whole balloon

in the two gradient y normal statements.

Bob

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On 25.07.2017 00:28, clipka wrote:
> Am 25.07.2017 um 01:42 schrieb Sven Littkowski:
>>
>> My e-mail client seems to ignore if I try to stop an unfinished posting.
>> Please ignore the above posting with the wrong contents.
> 
> Select the posting in question, then open the "Nachricht" menu (Alt-N),
> and choose "Beitrag zurückziehen" (Alt-Z).
> 
Cool! Thanks! Learned something new...

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On 25.07.2017 00:34, clipka wrote:
> Am 25.07.2017 um 01:41 schrieb Sven Littkowski:
>> Thanks a lot for your assistance, so far. But I admit, I am now irritated.
> 
> I hope you're just "confused" ("irritiert"), not "irritated" ("verärgert").
> 
Yes, confused. :-D

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On 25.07.2017 01:10, clipka wrote:
> Am 25.07.2017 um 07:06 schrieb clipka:
> 
>> I'm not sure what you are doing there. With the new bump map and using
>> the scene from your original post, the attached image is what I get
>> (after repairing broken comments and replacing the image_map with a
>> plain white pigment).
> 
> Oops, attached the wrong image: This one was generated with radiosity
> enabled (and a `nornal on` statement). Without radiosity the image looks
> pretty similar though.
> 
Thanks. Meanwhile, I actually applied many changes, with the effect that
scene parsing ends with an error. I tried to incorporate all advises,
but still miss something.

I am going to post the changed scene code at the very end of this
thread, to keep you all updated.

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UPDATE
Latest Scene Code
(I managed to change the balloon to a gray apple)   :-(


#version 3.7;

#include "kolors.inc"
#include "finish.inc"
#include "textures.inc"

#declare MyRadiosity = off;
//#declare MyBackground = "SL_Space_Scene_003"; // Wormhole /
SL_Space_Scene_003 /

global_settings
{
 #if(MyRadiosity)
  radiosity
  {
   media on
   pretrace_start 0.08
   pretrace_end   0.001
   count 400
   error_bound 0.75
   recursion_limit 1
   normal on
  }
 #end
 subsurface        {}
 adc_bailout       0.0039
 ambient_light     rgb < 0.000, 0.000, 0.000 >
 assumed_gamma     1.000
 irid_wavelength   rgb < 0.250, 0.180, 0.140 >
 max_trace_level   5
 number_of_waves   10
 noise_generator   3
 charset           ascii
}

#declare LightDiameter =     10000.0;
#declare LightDistanceX =  -500000.0; // X = Left - Right
#declare LightDistanceY =  1000000.0; // Y = Up - Down
#declare LightDistanceZ =  -100000.0; // Z = Front - Back
#declare LightRotate =          36.0;
#declare MyLight =             0.125;

camera
{
 location < -000.0, 400.0, -500.0 >
 look_at < 0.0, -200.0, 0.0 >
 right 1.77*x
}

//
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


light_source
{
 < 2500.0, 2500.0, 5000.0 >
 rgb < 0.72265625, 0.8046875, 0.80859375 > *1.5
}
/*
light_source
{
 < -50.0, 50.0, 0.0 >
 rgb < 0.3, 0.4, 0.8 > *1.1
}
*/
/*
#declare MyLight = light_source
{
 < -1000.0, 1000.0, 1000.0 >
 rgb < 0.72265625, 0.8046875, 0.80859375 > *0.25
// spotlight
// point_at < 0.0, 25.0, 100.0 >
// falloff 100.0
// radius 10.0
// fade_distance 50.0
// fade_power 4
}

union
{
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 000.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 036.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 072.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 108.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 144.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 180.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 216.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 252.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 288.0, 0.0 > }
 object { MyLight rotate < 0.0, 324.0, 0.0 > }
 translate < -1000.0, 0000.0, -1000.0 >
}
*/

//
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#declare MyRadius = 200.0;

//
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#declare PositiveBump = normal
{
 bump_map
 {
  png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher - Balloon -
Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon BumpMap.png"
 }
 bump_size 0.1
 translate -0.5
 rotate < 90.0, 0.0, 0.0 >
 scale MyRadius*2
}

#declare NegativeBump = normal
{
 bump_map { png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher -
Balloon - Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon BumpMap.png" map_type 0
interpolate 2 }
 bump_size 0.1
 translate -0.5
 rotate < 90.0, 0.0, 0.0 >
 scale -MyRadius*2
}

#declare MyOuterBalloonFinish = finish
{
// reflection   0.00
 crand        0.10
}

#declare MyInnerBalloonFinish = finish
{
 brilliance   1.50
 phong albedo 0.05
 metallic     0.00
 ambient      0.00
 emission     0.00
 reflection   0.50
}

#declare MyOuterBalloonTexture = texture
{
 pigment
 {
  image_map
  {
   png "H:\My Documents\My Pictures\POV-Ray\Space - Launcher - Balloon -
Type 001 - Moon Runnings - Balloon Texture.png"
   gamma 1
   map_type 0
   interpolate 2
   once
   transmit all 0.5
  }
  translate -0.5
  rotate < 90.0, 0.0, 0.0 >
  scale MyRadius*2
 }
 normal
 {
  gradient y
  normal_map
  {
   [ 0.175 PositiveBump]
   [ 0.175 NegativeBump]
  }
  scale <1,1.5*MyRadius,1>
 }
 finish { MyOuterBalloonFinish }
}

#declare MyInnerBalloonTexture = texture
{
 pigment { color rgb < 0.7686275,  0.7607843,  0.7333333 > }
 normal
 {
  gradient y
  normal_map
  {
   [ 0.175 PositiveBump]
   [ 0.175 NegativeBump]
  }
  scale <1,1.5*MyRadius,1>
 }
 finish { MyInnerBalloonFinish }
}

//
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

#declare UpperBalloonShape = torus     // Balloon Radius: 175 m /
Launcher Radius: 10 m
{
 95.0, 105.0
 scale < 1.0, 0.5, 1.0 >
}

#declare LowerBalloonShape = difference
{
 sphere { < 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 > MyRadius }
 cylinder { < 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 > < 0.0, 175.001, 0.0 > MyRadius+0.001 }
 scale < 1.0, 1.5, 1.0 >
}

#declare MyBalloonHullOutside = union
{
 object { UpperBalloonShape }
 object { LowerBalloonShape }
 texture { MyOuterBalloonTexture }
}

#declare MyBalloonHull = difference
{
 object { MyBalloonHullOutside }
 object
 {
  MyBalloonHullOutside
  scale 0.99999
  texture { MyInnerBalloonTexture }
 }
 cylinder  // Launcher Openings
 {
  < 0.0, -((MyRadius*1.5)+0.001), 0.0 > < 0.0, (MyRadius+0.001), 0.0 > 3.5
  texture { MyInnerBalloonTexture }
 }
}

#declare Launcher = difference
{
 union
 {
  #declare MyLength = 10.0;
  #declare MyHeight = 0.0;
  #declare MyTop = 35.0;
  cylinder { < 0.0, -((MyRadius*1.5)+30.0), 0.0 > < 0.0, MyTop, 0.0 >
3.5 }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 000.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 045.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 090.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 135.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 180.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 225.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 270.0, 0.0 > }
  box { < MyLength, -MyHeight, -0.1 > < -MyLength, MyTop, 0.1 > rotate <
0.0, 315.0, 0.0 > }
 }
 cylinder { < 0.0, -((MyRadius*1.5)+30.001), 0.0 > < 0.0, MyTop+0.001,
0.0 > 3.3 }
 pigment { color rgb 1.0 }
}

#declare DoublePositionLight = union
{
 union
 {
  cylinder { < 0.0, 0.0,  2.5 > < 10.0, 0.0,  2.5 > 0.20 }
  cylinder { < 0.0, 0.0, -2.5 > < 10.0, 0.0, -2.5 > 0.20 }
  pigment { color rgb < 0.05, 0.05, 0.05 > }
  finish { MyOuterBalloonFinish }
 }
 union
 {
  sphere { < 10.0, 0.0, 2.5 > 0.35 }
  sphere { < 10.0, 0.0, -2.5 > 0.35 }
  pigment { color rgbf < 1.0, 0.0, 0.0, 0.5 > }
  finish { ambient rgb < 0.3, 0.1, 0.1 > }
 }
 union
 {
  light_source
  {
   < 10.0, 0.0, 2.5 >
   rgb < 0.7, 0.0, 0.0 > *10.0
   fade_distance 50.0
   fade_power 4
  }
  light_source
  {
   < 10.0, 0.0, -2.5 >
   rgb < 0.7, 0.0, 0.0 > *1.0
   fade_distance 50.0
   fade_power 4
  }
 }
}

#declare PositionLights = union
{
 #declare MyDistance = MyRadius-0.1;
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 000.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 045.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 090.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 135.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 180.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 225.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 270.0, 0.0 > }
 object { DoublePositionLight translate < MyDistance, 0.0, 0.0 > rotate
< 0.0, 315.0, 0.0 > }
}

union
{
 object { MyBalloonHull }
 object { Launcher }
 object { PositionLights }
}

background { rgb < 0.02392157,  0.03490196,  0.04627451 > }


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On 7/25/2017 7:06 AM, Sven Littkowski wrote:
> Thanks. Meanwhile, I actually applied many changes, with the effect that
> scene parsing ends with an error. I tried to incorporate all advises,
> but still miss something.

Do the changes one at a time and test if they work before going on to 
the next. Otherwise it is like trying to find two matching ends in a 
plate of spaghetti. :)

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Stephen <mca### [at] aolcom> wrote:
> On 7/25/2017 7:06 AM, Sven Littkowski wrote:
> > Thanks. Meanwhile, I actually applied many changes, with the effect that
> > scene parsing ends with an error. I tried to incorporate all advises,
> > but still miss something.
>
> Do the changes one at a time and test if they work before going on to
> the next. Otherwise it is like trying to find two matching ends in a
> plate of spaghetti. :)

I like that description, and spaghetti.

I didn't get any errors after making sure all lines of SDL are commented, mostly
the several

//
--------------------------------------------

however, that's with my own image/bump file.
Probably need to use forward slashes, not back slashes since those are also
escape characters.

Rendering with a more distant camera I see the parachute piece again, that's
because in the LowerBalloonShape the cylinder being differenced away from the
sphere doesn't encompass the entire upper half.
Which is why I used:

 cylinder { < 0.0, 0.0, 0.0 >, < 0.0, MyRadius+0.001, 0.0 >, MyRadius+0.001 }

instead of 175.001 for y.

Only my opinion but I still think the torus balloon top has a better look if
making it
scale <1, 0.75, 1> instead of the flattened <1, 0.5, 1>
but that's all up to you.
Although, if doing like I did, those bump_map entries are required to be either
0.175*1.5 or the equivalent of just 0.2625.

Anyway, I'm sure you get the idea how to rescale the gradient if making any
changes to the object scale.

And once again, I'll say the widest part of the balloon gets smooth with this
way of going about using a map_type 0 (planar) mapping. But to do it with
map_type 1 (spherical) you need an entirely different image, one that isn't
patterned radially. Something with vertical features.

Bob

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