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From: stevenvh
Subject: installer POV-Ray 3.7 beta 38 issues
Date: 31 Jul 2010 08:50:01
Message: <web.4c53e2dba045f70ec0721a1d0@news.povray.org>
I have a few issues with the 3.7 beta 38 installer.

1. Under WinXP beta 38 gets installed under "C:\documents and
settings\user\application data". This folder is for application *DATA*, not for
applications. Actually I like to choose myself where I install my programs,
which I could with beta 37, but not with beta 38. It looks like a new installer
is created for each new beta. Isn't it possible to re-use installers and just
fix the bugs?

2. The uninstaller (for both beta 37 and 38) deletes the settings from the "My
Documents" folder. Isn't the whole idea of placing them there to retain them
when a new version is installed?

Regards,
Steven


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From: Thorsten Froehlich
Subject: Re: installer POV-Ray 3.7 beta 38 issues
Date: 31 Jul 2010 10:15:28
Message: <4c53f7c0$1@news.povray.org>
On 31.07.10 10:46, stevenvh wrote:
> I have a few issues with the 3.7 beta 38 installer.
>
> 1. Under WinXP beta 38 gets installed under "C:\documents and
> settings\user\application data". This folder is for application *DATA*, not for
> applications. Actually I like to choose myself where I install my programs,
> which I could with beta 37, but not with beta 38. It looks like a new installer
> is created for each new beta. Isn't it possible to re-use installers and just
> fix the bugs?

This issue really, really has been beaten to death now. Search the 
newsgroups just a week back for the lst thread on that issue.

	Thorsten


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From: stevenvh
Subject: Re: installer POV-Ray 3.7 beta 38 issues
Date: 31 Jul 2010 11:00:01
Message: <web.4c5401dc87ca3686c0721a1d0@news.povray.org>
Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> This issue really, really has been beaten to death now. Search the
> newsgroups just a week back for the lst thread on that issue.
>
>  Thorsten

OK. My apologies.


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From: Chris Cason
Subject: Re: installer POV-Ray 3.7 beta 38 issues
Date: 31 Jul 2010 19:09:42
Message: <4c5474f6@news.povray.org>
On 31/07/2010 18:46, stevenvh wrote:
> 1. Under WinXP beta 38 gets installed under "C:\documents and
> settings\user\application data". This folder is for application *DATA*,
> not for applications. Actually I like to choose myself where I install
> my programs,

As Thorsten pointed out, this is well covered, but for the record: no, it's
not just for data; Microsoft recommends doing local installs there. I am
considering however changing it back to Program Files for Windows XP, as
the UAC issues which cause the above change don't exist on that platform.

> which I could with beta 37, but not with beta 38. It looks like a new
> installer is created for each new beta. Isn't it possible to re-use
> installers and just

No significant changes were made to the installer between beta 37 and 38.

> 2. The uninstaller (for both beta 37 and 38) deletes the settings from
> the "My Documents" folder. Isn't the whole idea of placing them there to
> retain them when a new version is installed?

I'd agree this probably isn't desired behavior, there is probably a way to
stop Windows doing this (or at least to stop it from removing any
user-added files), I'll have to look into that. Note that the uninstall
process is managed by Windows Installer, so we don't have direct control
over it, other than to leave instructions when the install originally
occurs as to roughly what should be done on uninstall.

-- Chris


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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: installer POV-Ray 3.7 beta 38 issues
Date: 1 Aug 2010 03:42:43
Message: <4c54ed33@news.povray.org>
Chris Cason wrote:
> I'd agree this probably isn't desired behavior, there is probably a way
 to
> stop Windows doing this 

Quoting from earlier in the thread:

http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID
=27028822-b172-4cec-91a3-26b610a4da79

"In “per-machine” installations, user data must be writte
n at first run and 
not during the installation."

Does this mean that creating the My Documents files during first run woul
d 
be a better way of working it? You could always create the defaults in th
e 
Program Files (or whatever) directory and copy them if they don't exist. 

Would that keep them from being deleted on uninstall?

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    C# - a language whose greatest drawback
    is that its best implementation comes
    from a company that doesn't hate Microsoft.


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From: Chris Cason
Subject: Re: installer POV-Ray 3.7 beta 38 issues
Date: 1 Aug 2010 03:51:40
Message: <4c54ef4c$1@news.povray.org>
On 1/08/2010 13:42, Darren New wrote:
> Chris Cason wrote:
>> I'd agree this probably isn't desired behavior, there is probably a way
>> to stop Windows doing this
>
> Quoting from earlier in the thread:
>
> http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&
> FamilyID=27028822-b172-4cec-91a3-26b610a4da79
>
> "In “per-machine” installations, user data must be written at first run
> and not during the installation."
>
> Does this mean that creating the My Documents files during first run
> would  be a better way of working it? You could always create the
> defaults in the Program Files (or whatever) directory and copy them if
> they don't exist. Would that keep them from being deleted on uninstall?

It has always been our intention to 'advertise' (Microsoft term) the module
that installs the per-user files; this is what gets activated on first run.
However this is still a Windows Setup module, so it would have the same
issue. I am sure there is a way to tell Windows not to remove these files;
it's just a way of working out how. I don't really want to have to write
code to manually copy and install them, as it kind of defeats the purpose
of having an installer.

(Of course, as soon as I do that, someone is inevitably going to complain
that POV-Ray doesn't clean up after itself when it's uninstalled ...)

-- Chris


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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: installer POV-Ray 3.7 beta 38 issues
Date: 1 Aug 2010 18:06:51
Message: <4c55b7bb$1@news.povray.org>
Chris Cason wrote:
> (Of course, as soon as I do that, someone is inevitably going to complain
> that POV-Ray doesn't clean up after itself when it's uninstalled ...)

I would think as long as it's a visible directory under My Documents with an 
obvious name, that's fine. The ugly is when you (for example) uninstall a 
game, and it leaves the saved games under Program Files instead of where you 
might actually notice them.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
    C# - a language whose greatest drawback
    is that its best implementation comes
    from a company that doesn't hate Microsoft.


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From: Christian Froeschlin
Subject: Re: installer POV-Ray 3.7 beta 38 issues
Date: 1 Aug 2010 20:34:12
Message: <4c55da44@news.povray.org>
Chris Cason wrote:

> (Of course, as soon as I do that, someone is inevitably going to complain
> that POV-Ray doesn't clean up after itself when it's uninstalled ...)

IIRC allowing the user to choose whether to remove such
data on uninstall is a recommendation in the windows 7 logo
program but not a requirement.


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From: stevenvh
Subject: Re: installer POV-Ray 3.7 beta 38 issues
Date: 3 Aug 2010 05:40:01
Message: <web.4c57aac387ca3686c0721a1d0@news.povray.org>
Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
> On 31/07/2010 18:46, stevenvh wrote:
>
> > which I could with beta 37, but not with beta 38. It looks like a new
> > installer is created for each new beta. Isn't it possible to re-use
> > installers and just
>
> No significant changes were made to the installer between beta 37 and 38.

I'm not going to fight over this, but beta 37 let me *choose* where to install
the program. And I didn't install it in Program files.


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From: stevenvh
Subject: Re: installer POV-Ray 3.7 beta 38 issues
Date: 3 Aug 2010 05:55:00
Message: <web.4c57ae6387ca3686c0721a1d0@news.povray.org>
Chris Cason <del### [at] deletethistoopovrayorg> wrote:
> It has always been our intention to 'advertise' (Microsoft term) the module
> that installs the per-user files; this is what gets activated on first run.
> However this is still a Windows Setup module, so it would have the same
> issue. I am sure there is a way to tell Windows not to remove these files;
> it's just a way of working out how. I don't really want to have to write
> code to manually copy and install them, as it kind of defeats the purpose
> of having an installer.
>
> (Of course, as soon as I do that, someone is inevitably going to complain
> that POV-Ray doesn't clean up after itself when it's uninstalled ...)
>

(I made modifications to povray.ini and quickres.ini.)

How about this:
let the installer place the ini-files at the program location (like in version
3.6), and copy them to Documents and Settings on first run, without overwriting
existing files.
That way there's no problem if the installer removes the files created at
install.
There may be a problem when a new version adds new items which won't get copied
to the existing files, however.


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