povray.org admin team wrote in message <35e5f9d1.4652950@news.povray.org>...
>Does anyone find the new editor in POVWIN beta 6 to be an improvement ?
>


Are you kidding? This is the best thing that's happened to me since I came
back from vacation at the seaside. Here's a list of the 'little' things that
made me really love it:

- the way the 'home' key works...

- block indent

- match brace

- etc.

And a thing that disturbs me (not enough for a bug report, though): the
default output file type seems to be sys (.BMP). Since .BMPs are written
backwards POV makes an full-sized (900k for 640x480 -ua) empty file and goes
on... OK, but when I instaled POV I started playing around with demo scenes
at 800x600 +sp8 and was kinda bewildered where my HDD space had gone ... and
then I saw about 50 megs of .BMPs. I looked through the manual and the .INIs
and didn't see a notice of sys being default output file type. If this is
so, please document this change or make .TGA default (as it was).

>BTW If there is sufficient interest we will post a new editor DLL that has
one
>new feature added since the beta 6 release - it allows you to right-click
on a
>#include line and automatically open the file that is being included.

Sounds good. What if the .INC is recursive ? <G> Anyway, this will probably
help add a nice feature: what about highlighting undeclared identifiers as
you type (to save some nerve?)

Congratulations to the Team on the great job they've done with beta6!

Regards,

--Peter

pet### [at] usanet

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As soon as I installed and ran the new version
I really liked it.  For me, it has a much better feel
to it.  A big Thank You to the POV Team for this
great program.  The new feature also sounds good.
Please keep up the great work.

                David Young

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I agree -- the new editor is an excellent upgrade!

However, there are still features in emacs in POV mode
that make that, to me, preferable.   Pardon me if I
am missing features in the current POV-W9x editor.
The features are:

1. Indent-line indent-region and indent-buffer :
   automatically set indentation of a line, region, 
   or the entire buffer
2. Parenthesis matching : when a closing parenthesis is typed,
   the curser briefly highlights the matching opening parenthesis.
   If a closing parenthesis is typed after an opening bracket,
   for example, a warning is issue.   AFAICT, the POV-W9x editor
   only does parenthesis matching on highlighted parentheses,
   which interrupts typing.

   However, the color code and auto-indentation of the POV
   W9x editor does provide a nice visual clue if parenthesis
   matching is off, so I am being picky here.

Still, I can hardly complain -- the new editor is a real programming
editor and a huge improvement over the previous edition, which
itself was quite usable.

I add my thanks to those of others posted here.

Dan

David Young wrote:
> 
>     As soon as I installed and ran the new version
> I really liked it.  For me, it has a much better feel
> to it.  A big Thank You to the POV Team for this
> great program.  The new feature also sounds good.
> Please keep up the great work.
> 
>                 David Young

-- 
http://www.flash.net/~djconnel/

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>1. Indent-line indent-region and indent-buffer :
>   automatically set indentation of a line, region, 
>   or the entire buffer

What exactly do you refer to here ? You can block-indent an entire selection if
you want (just as easily as the entire buffer since there's a select all key).
So I presume you mean something else ?

Post a reply to this message

povray.org admin team wrote:
> 
> Does anyone find the new editor in POVWIN beta 6 to be an improvement ?
> 

While the old editor was good and usable, calling the new one an
"improvement"
is a gross understatement, IMHO. The new editor's features represent a
quantum
leap over the old one...three cheers for the POV-Team!!!

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The new povwin editor really is great. And, as everything,
as always, as everywhere, it can get even better. For me,
it should involve solving these bugs, including these
suggestions:

BUGS
* intellimouse support? what intellimouse support?
* state flashs in info bar
* 'open' button disabled on unmodified file... but
  not the menu command
* ctrl+] match brace shorcut can't work on an belgian
  azerty keyboard (you have to press ctrl+alt+$ to get
  a ], so you can't add a ctrl over this), and I can't
  change the shortcut
* shift+click doesn't select
* open and save dialogs sometimes give focus to other
  applications on closing
* the end of a render sometimes takes focus from an other
  application (particulary the help)
* = isn't highlighted (either as an assignement or as a
  logical operator)
* copy on no selection does copy an empty string (logical
  but not usual)
* Render/Edit setting/render (alt C) does render the previously
  saved file, bypass the save dialog and the quit-bugging-me.

SUGGESTIONS
* return of the 'open in' command
* 'save' and 'save as' in the context menu
* ability to select and copy text in message window
* many 'strange' shorcuts if you have such standards
  as MS Office, Adobe products or Macintosh's command
  shortcuts:
  redo - ctrl+y
  close - ctrl+w
  print - ctrl+p
  replace - ctrl+h (ctrl+shift+F3 ???)
  Is it so difficult to get all shorcuts customisable?
* toolbars are a bit too big. I would redesign them this
  way if I could: move two help buttons to the 'main'
  toolbar, remove theCD's and web sites buttons (but keep the
  corresponding commands in the Help menu) and remove the
  pretty but totally useless render animation.
* does anybody use the 'overwrite' mode? What is it usefull
  for? If nobody use this, I would gladly see it desappear,
  as I am always confused whenever I turn it on - always
  by accident.
* move 'older files' at the end of the file list
* regroup the 'editor' menu with the 'options' menu
* still no command line editor
* a better and clearer structure for the help



Here are two last suggestion that I know are in conflict
with actual pov team orientation. (I know because I am not
the first to post about them). But I do not understand the
pov team position, as all they said was something like 'no,
we won't'. I do not say that there isn't a good reason, I
just ask what are the practical, design or programing
reason for an answer I do not understand. Maybe I am
missing the point? (Hey, saying 'no, we have enough work as
it is' is a very good reason... an excellent one. And an
unarguable one.)

(1) Why can't the 'quit bugging me' feature be kept from
session to session?

(2) The editor behaviour which permits to select where
there aren't any character is really great. But a normal
text editor behaviour (like the last one) is more
convenient most of the time (I kinda checked this, I
watched myself working). This means: snap to the end of
line clicked in 'vacuum', left and right arrows can jump
to the previous or next line, don't add space at the end
of lines when inserting a carriage return in the 'vacuum'.
The 'select anywhere' feature could be used with
ctrl+click, like the collumn selection (this would be
coherent). Or you could toggle edit modes.

As always, all these suggestions reflect an user approach,
not a programmer's one.


By the way, did you try these wonderfull features or the
new editor?

* tab or shif-tab (= 'back-tab') a selection
* collumn selection (ctrl+drag)
* cut, copy and paste of collumns selection
* click'n'drag a selection


And let all say a big 'THANK YOU POV-TEAM' for their
thruly remarquable work.


Sincerely,


Philippe


P.S. I wrote earlier that I'll give the new pov editor
some time before asking anything... well, I did: I worked
two full days with it since (but as I do not have network
access on my computer I have to wait before posting, that
explains the missing day).

Post a reply to this message

Philippe Debar wrote:

> SUGGESTIONS
One addition from me. Return start/stop rendering option
to right click menu.

> * ability to select and copy text in message window

agreed

**Also allow arrow key scrolling in main message window

>   redo - ctrl+y

Leave ctrl+y alone It's fine the way it is.

> * toolbars are a bit too big. I would redesign them this
>   way if I could: move two help buttons to the 'main'
>   toolbar, remove the CD's and web sites buttons (but keep the
>   corresponding commands in the Help menu) and remove the
>   pretty but totally useless render animation.

I agree.

BUT I suspect that the pov team has their own agenda
for having them where they are. The cost of maintaining the
POV-Ray home page and running their own news server is
expensive. I suspect they are trying make it easier for people
to access and remember the locations of products and companies
that help with financial support for these wonderful privileges
and if that's the case I for one can live with it.

> * does anybody use the 'overwrite' mode? What is it useful
>   for? If nobody use this, I would gladly see it disappear,
>   as I am always confused whenever I turn it on - always
>   by accident.

Yes I use it and please leave it alone

> * move 'older files' at the end of the file list

No ! No! No ! Leave it alone. I keep several .inc files open at all times
which allows easy cut and paste of common statements.
I don't want them moving all over the place. I like them stationary
and left were and in what order I put them.

> * a better and clearer structure for the help

Yep !
Which is to say I really liked the help system in
POV-Ray 3.0x and the new help system is confusing
and difficult to navigate. If I have to RTFM I need to
find the information so I don't have to ask stupid questions.
If anything return to a single scrollable help file instead
of a page to page style in use now.

> Sincerely,
> Philippe

K.Tyler

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Hello again

K. Tyler wrote in message <35E9A7F9.5C9D3914@pacbell.net>...
>>   redo - ctrl+y
>Leave ctrl+y alone It's fine the way it is.


Yes, that's why I concluded with 'can't we really change
*all* shorcuts, please, mister Pov; pleeaasse'

>BUT I suspect that the pov team has their own agenda
>for having them where they are. The cost of maintaining the
>POV-Ray home page and running their own news server is
>expensive. I suspect they are trying make it easier for people
>to access and remember the locations of products and companies
>that help with financial support for these wonderful privileges
>and if that's the case I for one can live with it.


As I do not have network access on my computer,
each time I press the button mistakenly (once or twice a day),
I get this ******* MS connection wizard.
But if it mean supporting the pov team, thay can put as many
buttons as they want, I'll accept them gladly.

>> * does anybody use the 'overwrite' mode?
>Yes I use it and please leave it alone

Well, that's what question are for. Without any irony of any
sort, what do you use it for? I did never find any case where
it would be usefull... and I'm always open to a new editing
technique (even more if it means I'll gain time).

>> * move 'older files' at the end of the file list
>No ! No! No ! Leave it alone.
Well, I do not use it (yet) - so you surely know better. But
I am not sure we understood each other perfectly: I meant
'move the older file commant just above the exit command',
(this was my orderly self speaking), and not as my message
read 'move the content of...' Well, anyway, I am bickering;-)

Good night everybody, sleep tight!


Philippe

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povray.org admin team wrote:
> 
> >1. Indent-line indent-region and indent-buffer :
> >   automatically set indentation of a line, region,
> >   or the entire buffer
> 
> What exactly do you refer to here ? You can block-indent an entire selection if
> you want (just as easily as the entire buffer since there's a select all key).
> So I presume you mean something else ?

Err.... I missed this one.

I would deserve a RTFM, except there is no M yet :).

Dan

-- 
http://www.flash.net/~djconnel/

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>Err.... I missed this one.
>
>I would deserve a RTFM, except there is no M yet :).

It's always a good idea to spend time inspecting the menus and options dialogs
of a new program (that's what I always do, even before I look at the manual).
Menu captions can be most informative :)

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