Hello everyone,

This is clearly OT, but this it seems there are some persons
here that use non-Linux systems (yeah, real Unices).

Vim 6 is now in the final beta stage. All the features are in,
it's now time to kill the few remaining bugs. I think Vim's
author would be pleased to have some feedback from real-Unix
users. Vim is meant to be easily compilable on most Unix systems,
and any compilation problem should be sorted out before Vim 6
goes public.

Since it also adds optional support for Unicode and PostScript
printing, I expect it might reveal some oddities in different
Unix implementations.

If you are interested, you can read the first three paragraphs
of http://www.appwatch.com/lists/vim-dev/2001-August/008482.html

You can then skip to the 'Epilogue' at the end, where the
Vim source files URLs are given.

Thank you for your attention.

-- 
Adrien Beau - adr### [at] freefr - http://adrien.beau.free.fr
 Mes propos n'engagent que moi et en aucun cas mes employeurs

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Hay, there is a BeOS user here too.....

Adrien Beau wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> This is clearly OT, but this it seems there are some persons
> here that use non-Linux systems (yeah, real Unices).

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"Mr. Art" wrote:
> 
> Hay, there is a BeOS user here too.....

Hay, Vim should work there too...

-- 
Adrien Beau - adr### [at] freefr - http://adrien.beau.free.fr
 Mes propos n'engagent que moi et en aucun cas mes employeurs

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It probably does/would if I didn't use the IDE Editor
that comes with the developers install...
It even hi-lights some of the text for me.


Adrien Beau wrote:
> 
> "Mr. Art" wrote:
> >
> > Hay, there is a BeOS user here too.....
> 
> Hay, Vim should work there too...
> 
> --
> Adrien Beau - adr### [at] freefr - http://adrien.beau.free.fr
>  Mes propos n'engagent que moi et en aucun cas mes employeurs

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Mr. Art <mra### [at] chesapeakenet> wrote:
: It probably does/would if I didn't use the IDE Editor
: that comes with the developers install...

  So Vim doesn't work in BeOS because you use the IDE Editor?

-- 
#macro N(D,I)#if(I<6)cylinder{M()#local D[I]=div(D[I],104);M().5,2pigment{
rgb M()}}N(D,(D[I]>99?I:I+1))#end#end#macro M()<mod(D[I],13)-6,mod(div(D[I
],13),8)-3,10>#end blob{N(array[6]{11117333955,
7382340,3358,3900569407,970,4254934330},0)}//                     - Warp -

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It seemed to compile and run without problems in this Sun Ultra 5 with
Solaris 7.

  However, I have never understood these vi editors. They are the most
user-unfriendly editors I have ever seen.
  Even though Emacs is very user-unfriendly, at least it works with some
logic by default:

  - When you start emacs and give it a file to edit, it opens the file and
lets you edit it right away, as any text editor would do. That is, you can
write text, delete text and so on, as it's usual with a text editor.

  - If you have modified the text and try to exit (if you can figure out how
to exit, which has been made incredibly difficult by default), it asks if
you want to save the file before exiting and gives you the easy choice of
pressing 'y' or 'n'.

  - If Emacs is run under X, it automatically opens an X window with enhanced
capabilities (because it's not anymore restricted to what a terminal can do).

  However, these vi editors are just incredibly user-unfriendly. You just
CAN'T use them right away. It's completely impossible:

  - When you start it and give it a file to edit, you can't edit it right
away. Pressing characters only give beeps, pressing enter does nothing but
move the cursor a line down. And there's absolutely no hint about how could
you possibly modify the text.

  - Of course exiting the whole editor has been made incredibly difficult,
even more difficult than in Emacs. Also if you somehow have manage to modify
the text and somehow discover how to exit, it just refuses to exit.

  - When run under X, it doesn't start in X mode by default. At least in the
X mode it's easier to exit (just close the window; it even asks in a
user-friendly way if you want to save).

-- 
#macro N(D,I)#if(I<6)cylinder{M()#local D[I]=div(D[I],104);M().5,2pigment{
rgb M()}}N(D,(D[I]>99?I:I+1))#end#end#macro M()<mod(D[I],13)-6,mod(div(D[I
],13),8)-3,10>#end blob{N(array[6]{11117333955,
7382340,3358,3900569407,970,4254934330},0)}//                     - Warp -

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Warp wrote:
[He prefers emacs to vi]

But with vi, you only need the keyboard, and it's a very powerful
text manipulation interactive tools. 
And the opening in command mode (instead of edit mode), is just
good to protect against newbee...
--

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: But with vi, you only need the keyboard

  What else do you need with emacs other than the keyboard?-o

: and it's a very powerful text manipulation interactive tools. 

  I didn't say it's not powerful. I said that it's incredibly user-unfriendly.

: And the opening in command mode (instead of edit mode), is just
: good to protect against newbee...

  Protect what? I don't understand this.

-- 
#macro N(D,I)#if(I<6)cylinder{M()#local D[I]=div(D[I],104);M().5,2pigment{
rgb M()}}N(D,(D[I]>99?I:I+1))#end#end#macro M()<mod(D[I],13)-6,mod(div(D[I
],13),8)-3,10>#end blob{N(array[6]{11117333955,
7382340,3358,3900569407,970,4254934330},0)}//                     - Warp -

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Warp wrote:

> : and it's a very powerful text manipulation interactive tools.
> 
>   I didn't say it's not powerful. I said that it's incredibly user-unfriendly.

Must have been written by one of the Blender authors :)

-- 
Ken Tyler

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Warp wrote:
> 
>   It seemed to compile and run without problems in this Sun Ultra 5 with
> Solaris 7.

Good. Especially if you prefer Emacs and nevertheless tried to
compile it. Thank you.

Let's try not to start a flame war. I'm just trying to keep it
fair to Vi(m).

>   However, I have never understood these vi editors. They are the most
> user-unfriendly editors I have ever seen.

They're newbie-unfriendly, not user-unfriendly (just like Unix).
Vim and I are good friends.  :-)

>   - When you start emacs and give it a file to edit, it opens the file and
> lets you edit it right away, as any text editor would do. That is, you can
> write text, delete text and so on, as it's usual with a text editor.

Same with Vi(m). You can delete text right away (with the d key),
change a part of it (with the c key) and even insert some new text
(with the i key)!

Granted, the fact that it doesn't start in insert mode is confusing
the first time. Vim can start (and stay) in insert mode though.
There's even a "evim" which starts in this mode (stands for easy Vim).

>   - If you have modified the text and try to exit (if you can figure out how
> to exit, which has been made incredibly difficult by default), it asks if
> you want to save the file before exiting and gives you the easy choice of
> pressing 'y' or 'n'.

So does Vim. Vim stands for Vi Improved, for a reason.

>   - If Emacs is run under X, it automatically opens an X window with enhanced
> capabilities (because it's not anymore restricted to what a terminal can do).

gvim (GUI Vim) comes along vim. You can also start Vim and type
the ":gui" command when you're bored of your xterm.

>   However, these vi editors are just incredibly user-unfriendly. You just
> CAN'T use them right away. It's completely impossible:

That's almost true. I was lost the first time. Though, in Vim, if
you start it without a file to edit (just "vim") the text on screen
tells you how to get help and how to exit.

Vim btw has one of the best documentations around (unlike Vi).

>   - When you start it and give it a file to edit, you can't edit it right
> away. Pressing characters only give beeps, pressing enter does nothing but
> move the cursor a line down. And there's absolutely no hint about how could
> you possibly modify the text.

It depends on the characters you type. Try dG (delete till end of file).
That said, yes, you need at least to know some basics. Vim has a tutor
that teaches by practice enough commands to get around in Vi(m). It also
has a very good (and new) User Manual.

>   - Of course exiting the whole editor has been made incredibly difficult,
> even more difficult than in Emacs. Also if you somehow have manage to modify
> the text and somehow discover how to exit, it just refuses to exit.

I don't think ":q" is harder than CTRL-C CTRL-X (is that right?).
And if you modified the file, the error message explains that you have
to type ":q!" to exit and lose your changes.

>   - When run under X, it doesn't start in X mode by default. At least in the
> X mode it's easier to exit (just close the window; it even asks in a
> user-friendly way if you want to save).

See above.

-- 
 Adrien Beau - adr### [at] freefr - http://adrien.beau.free.fr
Vi has two modes. One in which it beeps, one in which it doesn't.

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