hi,

Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> ...
> consumers journal for digital matters, and for years they warn about and
> give help/advice about these things, particularly privacy. They are very
> positive about FF and TB and somewhat neutral to negative about Chrome.
> Google and MS are not really their friends were privacy is concerned
> obviously...

they/you are not wrong, all of the "big names", even the geniuses who use a
rodent with a single button, require one to "hold one's nose" I'd say.

still, I do pay Google money -- a small amount -- annually, figuring that since
my data now is actually theirs, they will look after it a little better. ;-)


regards, jr.

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Op 1-8-2023 om 13:33 schreef jr:
> hi,
> 
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>> ...
>> consumers journal for digital matters, and for years they warn about and
>> give help/advice about these things, particularly privacy. They are very
>> positive about FF and TB and somewhat neutral to negative about Chrome.
>> Google and MS are not really their friends were privacy is concerned
>> obviously...
> 
> they/you are not wrong, all of the "big names", even the geniuses who use a
> rodent with a single button, require one to "hold one's nose" I'd say.
> 
> still, I do pay Google money -- a small amount -- annually, figuring that since
> my data now is actually theirs, they will look after it a little better. ;-)
> 
True. I should correct myself here by stating that they are above all 
criticised because of their own use of private data from their users.

Incidentally, there are at this moment three lawsuits from consumers 
organisations within the EU: One against Facebook which was fined 1.2 
billion Euros In May 2023; one against TikTok, and one against Google. 
The last two are still under way.

-- 
Thomas

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"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> [...] personally, I tend to visit a new URL in an "incognito" window [...]

This is the way. I do this (in FF), not because I think it it protects me from
being tracked completely (it doesn't), but because it keeps my searches from
being curated. It seems like today's web is all about trapping you into a tiny
box and selling you things it thinks are in your best interests at every turn.

> :-)  no FF (or TB) here.

You might want to change your mind about that, since I heard Chromium-based
browsers will be making it harder (if not impossible) to use ad blockers in the
near future.

(rant incoming)

I'm done with ads. I hate them. I grew up watching them on TV and seeing them in
magazines, and I have had my fill. Here's a great Banksy quote about
advertising:

~~~

    "People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life,
take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall
buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that
imply you're not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else.
They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the
most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with
it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you.

    You, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property
rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they
like with total impunity.

    Fuck that. Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you
see it or not is yours. It's yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do
whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock
someone just threw at your head.

    You owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially don't owe
them any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put
themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, don't even
start asking for theirs."

~~~

If I lived in the city, I would probably be spray-painting billboards, haha.

Sam

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Op 08/08/2023 om 01:05 schreef Samuel B.:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>> [...] personally, I tend to visit a new URL in an "incognito" window [...]
> 
> This is the way. I do this (in FF), not because I think it it protects me from
> being tracked completely (it doesn't), but because it keeps my searches from
> being curated. It seems like today's web is all about trapping you into a tiny
> box and selling you things it thinks are in your best interests at every turn.
> 
>> :-)  no FF (or TB) here.
> 
> You might want to change your mind about that, since I heard Chromium-based
> browsers will be making it harder (if not impossible) to use ad blockers in the
> near future.
> 
> (rant incoming)
> 
> I'm done with ads. I hate them. I grew up watching them on TV and seeing them in
> magazines, and I have had my fill. Here's a great Banksy quote about
> advertising:
> 
> ~~~
> 
>      "People are taking the piss out of you everyday. They butt into your life,
> take a cheap shot at you and then disappear. They leer at you from tall
> buildings and make you feel small. They make flippant comments from buses that
> imply you're not sexy enough and that all the fun is happening somewhere else.
> They are on TV making your girlfriend feel inadequate. They have access to the
> most sophisticated technology the world has ever seen and they bully you with
> it. They are The Advertisers and they are laughing at you.
> 
>      You, however, are forbidden to touch them. Trademarks, intellectual property
> rights and copyright law mean advertisers can say what they like wherever they
> like with total impunity.
> 
>      Fuck that. Any advert in a public space that gives you no choice whether you
> see it or not is yours. It's yours to take, re-arrange and re-use. You can do
> whatever you like with it. Asking for permission is like asking to keep a rock
> someone just threw at your head.
> 
>      You owe the companies nothing. Less than nothing, you especially don't owe
> them any courtesy. They owe you. They have re-arranged the world to put
> themselves in front of you. They never asked for your permission, don't even
> start asking for theirs."
> 
> ~~~
> 
> If I lived in the city, I would probably be spray-painting billboards, haha.
> 
> Sam
> 
Ha Ha! My gospel this! :-)

[note: I /think/ that here in Western Europe, we are a little bit more 
protected from all this than in the US...]

-- 
Thomas

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Op 08/08/2023 om 01:05 schreef Samuel B.:
>
> > [anti-ad stuff]
>
> Ha Ha! My gospel this! :-)
>
> [note: I /think/ that here in Western Europe, we are a little bit more
> protected from all this than in the US...]
>
> --
> Thomas

I not sure why more people here aren't upset at all the stuff they put up with
day in and day out. The EU definitely seems to have better policies regarding
advertising, privacy, etc.

Here in the US people just take it, for whatever reasons. Everyone is told to
just vote better, but from my point of view, it's truly a good cop/bad cop
scenario... one in which both sides are playing both sides at the same time...
One side (republicans) is pretty much the bad cop, and the other side
(democrats) are the good cop who just "can't get anything done," because the
republicans are always "blocking" their moves. Meanwhile, people are
increasingly unable to afford rent, healthcare and even food (which might be a
good thing in this supersized society :P).

But worst of all are the wars my country wages abroad without nary a vote. I
truly feel bad about places like Syria who are under constant assault by
terrorists, many of whom wear US uniforms or were trained & funded by the very
country claiming to fight a war against terrorism! It's insane that anyone
thinks the US are the good guys. I know there needs to be stability, but with
our countless coups, sanctions which hurt the people and not their governments,
theft of oil... Well, I try not to get too worked up about it but I still feel
somewhat responsible, being a US citizen and all.

Sam

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hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > [...] personally, I tend to visit a new URL in an "incognito" window [...]
>
> This is the way. I do this (in FF), not because I think it it protects me from
> being tracked completely (it doesn't), but because it keeps my searches from
> being curated.

yes, "curated".  these impersonal "personalisations" have crept in to, it seems,
every aspect of web access.  thoroughly dislike (mildest :-)) the trend.


> > :-)  no FF (or TB) here.
> You might want to change your mind about that, since I heard Chromium-based
> browsers will be making it harder (if not impossible) to use ad blockers in the
> near future.
>
> (rant incoming)

:-)  (seeks shelter behind desk)


> I'm done with ads. I hate them. I grew up watching them on TV and seeing them in
> magazines, and I have had my fill.

agree, and here Google really is the major offender, afaict.  I mean, what
soulless cretin puts advertisements in the middle of (tracks of) an album ?!
(as happens on YT)


> Here's a great Banksy quote about
> advertising:

yes, commerce vs ethics.. thanks.  (one of my "firm favourite" artists)


you replied to Thomas:

> But worst of all are the wars my country wages abroad ... Well, I try
> not to get too worked up about it but I still feel somewhat responsible,
> being a US citizen and all.

guess I must be older than you, I think the "not quite wars" the US of A
conducted in Central-America, more often than not via its Central Intelligence
Agency, were worse perhaps because undeclared.  but look on the bright side, at
least y'all can get cheap cocaine now, by the ton :-).

and you do not have to be a US (of A) citizen to feel the responsibility(-ies),
truly, we all ought to.


regards, jr.

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"jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> hi,
>
> "Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> > "jr" <cre### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> > > [...] personally, I tend to visit a new URL in an "incognito" window [...]
> >
> > [...] it keeps my searches from being curated. [...]
>
> yes, "curated".  these impersonal "personalisations" have crept in to, it seems,
> every aspect of web access.  thoroughly dislike (mildest :-)) the trend.

It's the internet, you can say "hate" here ;P

> > I'm done with ads. I hate them. I grew up watching them on TV and seeing them in
> > magazines, and I have had my fill.
>
> agree, and here Google really is the major offender, afaict.  I mean, what
> soulless cretin puts advertisements in the middle of (tracks of) an album ?!
> (as happens on YT)

FF with UBlock Origin prevents any such incursions for the time being. And if
you want to listen to the music you like, there are a number of online YouTube
downloaders out there that still work... Plus, I think there's still a way to
support your favorite artists monetarily, apart from YT views :)

> > Here's a great Banksy quote about
> > advertising:
>
> yes, commerce vs ethics.. thanks.  (one of my "firm favourite" artists)

I was on a fence about the guy for a while, but that quote made me realize that
other people have the same feelings about these issues as me.

>
> you replied to Thomas:
>
> > But worst of all are the wars my country wages abroad ... Well, I try
> > not to get too worked up about it but I still feel somewhat responsible,
> > being a US citizen and all.
>
> guess I must be older than you, I think the "not quite wars" the US of A
> conducted in Central-America, more often than not via its Central Intelligence
> Agency, were worse perhaps because undeclared.

I'm in my mid-forties, so not /too/ young. But yes, I know a bit about my
country's undeclared wars. I said "wars" in my previous comment because I refuse
to see them as anything else. When was the last time the US declared war? WWII?
Declarations are meaningless when actions speak otherwise -_-

> but look on the bright side, at least y'all can get cheap cocaine now, by the
> ton :-).

I heard there are killer square groupers on the east coast. Not that I've ever
had any... I'm on the west coast. (I did get a chance to have some once, but I
didn't want my face going all numb in mixed company. Plus, it seems like it's
not all that great anyway...)

> and you do not have to be a US (of A) citizen to feel the responsibility(-ies),
> truly, we all ought to.
>
> regards, jr.

True, but it seems like my country of the US is the biggest exporter of
"democracah." Pax Americana, it's sometimes called :/

Sam

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Interesting news about data cloud storage EU vs US:

https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66310714

-- 
Thomas

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hi,

"Samuel B." <stb### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> ... [Banksy] ...
> I was on a fence about the guy for a while, but that quote made me realize that
> other people have the same feelings about these issues as me.

ah, I "fell for him" when I was given Wall & Peace, as a present.

"People who enjoy waving flags don't deserve to have one."

:-)

> ...  I'm on the west coast. ...

ah, loved (still do) their (few I know of) musical cultures.  Ralph Records,
Cleopatra..  :-)


@ TdG
> Interesting news about data cloud storage EU vs US

perfect timing :-), thanks.


regards, jr.

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> Interesting news about data cloud storage EU vs US:
>
> https://www.bbc.com/news/business-66310714
>
> --
> Thomas

I was wondering how this might square with Five Eyes... But are there actually
any 5Es members now, after Brexit?

I suppose the GDPR only helps against commercial data acquisition, at any rate.

Sam

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