On 8/23/2018 6:07 AM, dick balaska wrote:
> Pretty weird. This is the box I bought, the link is from my history.
> But, I did *not* pay $800 with monitor.  I would have gone for a lesser
> machine.
> 
> Technically, the machine is for the 6 year old to play minecraft. :)
> 
>
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/dell-inspiron-desktop-intel-core-i5-12gb-memory-1tb-hard-drive-black-with-silver-trim/6228201.p?skuId=6228201
> 

This one is slightly cheaper:

https://www.bestbuy.com/site/hp-pavilion-desktop-amd-ryzen-5-series-12gb-memory-1tb-hard-drive-ash-silver/6221040.p?skuId=6221040

It has 4 cores/8 threads, so it might be better for POV-Ray.

Also the APU in the new AMD PCs are supposed to be good. However, I 
haven't yet found a way to directly compare this APU with my old GeForce 
GTX 750 TI. If the APU is better then I might buy this PC.


Mike

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dick balaska <dic### [at] buckosoftcom> wrote:
> I've noticed a Ghz decrease in my last couple of boxes.  From 3.4Ghz to
> 3.0Ghz and now 2.8Ghz.  Certainly that will run "cooler".
> The box is in the living room and is silent, as opposed to my i7 which
> has dual fans that have a teeth-floating harmonic.

Dual fans?  Does it overclock?  Overclocking is a disqualifier for me; it
increases the risk of frying the CPU without providing any long term advantages
for a ray tracer.

But I can't live without my hyper-threading, so my next box will surely be
another i7.

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Am 23.08.2018 um 20:33 schrieb Cousin Ricky:

> But I can't live without my hyper-threading, so my next box will surely be
> another i7.

Not necessarily. IIRC Intel has just recently started to introduce
hyperthreading into the i5 class of CPUs.

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On 8/23/2018 4:03 PM, clipka wrote:
> Am 23.08.2018 um 20:33 schrieb Cousin Ricky:
> 
>> But I can't live without my hyper-threading, so my next box will surely be
>> another i7.
> 
> Not necessarily. IIRC Intel has just recently started to introduce
> hyperthreading into the i5 class of CPUs.
> 

I thought the i5s always used hyperthreading?


Mike

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On 8/23/2018 4:03 PM, clipka wrote:
> Am 23.08.2018 um 20:33 schrieb Cousin Ricky:
> 
>> But I can't live without my hyper-threading, so my next box will surely be
>> another i7.
> 
> Not necessarily. IIRC Intel has just recently started to introduce
> hyperthreading into the i5 class of CPUs.
> 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Intel_Core_i5_microprocessors#Westmere_microarchitecture_(1st_generation)

1st generation i5s featured hyperthreading according to Wikipedia.


Mike

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Am 24.08.2018 um 01:48 schrieb Mike Horvath:
> On 8/23/2018 4:03 PM, clipka wrote:
>> Am 23.08.2018 um 20:33 schrieb Cousin Ricky:
>>
>>> But I can't live without my hyper-threading, so my next box will
>>> surely be
>>> another i7.
>>
>> Not necessarily. IIRC Intel has just recently started to introduce
>> hyperthreading into the i5 class of CPUs.
>>
> 
> I thought the i5s always used hyperthreading?

From what I'm finding on the internet, you're right in that i5 with
hyperthreading did exist previously, but only in 2-core (physical) models.

With Generation 8(?), Intel has apparently re-introduced HT to i5.

Reliable sources? Can't find any ad-hoc. Would have to dig through a
list of CPUs. No fun, no do.

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On 08/23/2018 02:33 PM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> dick balaska <dic### [at] buckosoftcom> wrote:
>> I've noticed a Ghz decrease in my last couple of boxes.  From 3.4Ghz to
>> 3.0Ghz and now 2.8Ghz.  Certainly that will run "cooler".
>> The box is in the living room and is silent, as opposed to my i7 which
>> has dual fans that have a teeth-floating harmonic.
> 
> Dual fans?  

Dual fans here means actually three fans. :) One on the power supply,
one on the case, and one on the CPU.  All three are different speeds and
make for some irksome high frequency harmonics.

> Does it overclock?  Overclocking is a disqualifier for me; it
> increases the risk of frying the CPU without providing any long term advantages
> for a ray tracer.

Any overclocking I do is provided by official intel.  I.e. the new i5
overclocks itself. "turbo mode"

model name	: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-8400 CPU @ 2.80GHz
cpu MHz		: 3799.999

The thing has been running flat out for a week. I expected it to
slowdown when it got warm.

> 
> But I can't live without my hyper-threading, so my next box will surely be
> another i7.

I don't know, man.  I like my i7, but this new i5 is *fast*.
I reran a scene and this is the number of frames that each contributed:

name    frames  % of total
        contrib
james	1275	32.93     # i5-8400 @ 2.8GHz (6 cores 6 threads)
cyd	789	20.38     # i7-4770 @ 3.4Ghz (4 cores, 8 threads)
joe	701	18.10     # i5-7400 @ 3.0GHz (4 cores) (2017 box)
ringo	618	15.96     # i5-4460 @ 3.2GHz (4 cores) (2015 box)
liza	489	12.63     # i5-3330 @ 3.0GHz (4 cores) (2013 box)

That scene ran for 8 days and the new i5 was only up for 6 days. I'd bet
the next scene he gets close to 40% of the total work.

-- 
dik
Rendered 920576 of 921600 pixels (99%)

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On 08/23/2018 11:07 AM, William F Pokorny wrote:

> Aside: This is the first I've noticed /proc/cpuinfo having bug
> information. Mine shows:
> 
> bugs : cpu_meltdown spectre_v1 spectre_v2 spec_store_bypass l1tf
> 
> Any of those gone on your i5-8400?

They are the same set.

The i7 is different:
bugs    : cpu_meltdown spectre_v1 spectre_v2 spec_store_bypass

Last years box:
model name : Intel(R) Core(TM) i5-7400 CPU @ 3.00GHz
bugs       : cpu_meltdown spectre_v1 spectre_v2 spec_store_bypass

My oldest box is running ubuntu 14 / linux 3.13 (as opposed to linux
4.4) and does not report the bugs.

> 
> Bill P.


-- 
dik
Rendered 920576 of 921600 pixels (99%)

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dick balaska <dic### [at] buckosoftcom> wrote:

> My oldest box is running ubuntu 14 / linux 3.13 (as opposed to linux
> 4.4) and does not report the bugs.

What's the most memory you have in an individual box?
What have you topped out at, rendering a frame?

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On 08/24/2018 05:34 AM, dick balaska wrote:
> On 08/23/2018 02:33 PM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> 
> I don't know, man.  I like my i7, but this new i5 is *fast*.
> I reran a scene and this is the number of frames that each contributed:
> 
> name    frames  % of total
>          contrib
> james	1275	32.93     # i5-8400 @ 2.8GHz (6 cores 6 threads)
> cyd	789	20.38     # i7-4770 @ 3.4Ghz (4 cores, 8 threads)
> joe	701	18.10     # i5-7400 @ 3.0GHz (4 cores) (2017 box)
> ringo	618	15.96     # i5-4460 @ 3.2GHz (4 cores) (2015 box)
> liza	489	12.63     # i5-3330 @ 3.0GHz (4 cores) (2013 box)
> 
> That scene ran for 8 days and the new i5 was only up for 6 days. I'd bet
> the next scene he gets close to 40% of the total work.
> 

Interesting - especially it not slowing over time. Supposing:

grep MHz /proc/cpuinfo

shows all six cpu values?

Mike posted a wikipedia link for the i5 generations and something which 
caught my eye there is the turbo boost is being applied to your 
processor relatively evenly across all cores. 10/10/11/11/11/12 
multipliers of 100mhz where on older processors it was more unevenly 
boosted and by less. Expect this playing a part in your good performance 
too.

I wonder if having the hyperthreading circuitry off in each core - my 
understanding is it is there, but disabled - allows each core to run 
cooler? There would be less demand for on die core specific storage too 
I guess with just one thread.

Christoph, You wondered about articles. Found at least one of the 
articles I'd read about more cores instead of threads:

https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2018/07/leaked-benchmarks-show-intel-is-dropping-hyperthreading-from-i7-chips/

My memory not quite right on things with respect to the current 
generation of i5s, but the more cores no threads direction at similar 
price is good news for POV-Ray.

Bill P.

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