 |
|
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Christoph's had some worrying aspects about how science is
viewed/presented in a popular way. This is another - darker - aspect:
http://www.nature.com/news/fantasy-politics-over-fetal-tissue-research-1.21263?WT.ec_id=NATURE-20170112&spMailingID=53176252&spUserID=MjA1NzUyMzA4OAS2&spJobID=1082042362&spReportId=MTA4MjA0MjM2MgS2
--
Thomas
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 01/12/2017 04:09 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> Christoph's had some worrying aspects about how science is
> viewed/presented in a popular way. This is another - darker - aspect:
>
>
http://www.nature.com/news/fantasy-politics-over-fetal-tissue-research-1.21263?WT.ec_id=NATURE-20170112&spMailingID=53176252&spUserID=MjA1NzUyMzA4OAS2&spJobID=1082042362&spReportId=MTA4MjA0MjM2MgS2
The writers of said science fiction saga do not believe in facts. You
can show them the evidence, the videos, the fossils, the birth
certificates, and even the confessions and apologies of their own
Republican leaders, and they will dismiss it all out of hand, because
the facts stubbornly refuse to conform to their fixed beliefs.
BTW, "fixed beliefs" is *their* terminology.
Their attempt to redefine science is nothing new. They've been trying
for years to force scientists in the USA to include the supernatural in
their theories. This, of course, fits into their narrative that reality
is defined by what they believe. If the scientific method isn't to
their liking, they just redefine it, and cry "unfair" when scientists
explain that they don't get to do that.
We've even got an Australian immigrant, who's found fertile ground in
the USA, lecturing scientists on what is proper science! And he's
conned the Kentucky legislature into giving him a huge tax break on a
big boat on dry land, because if scientists knew what they were doing,
they'd obviously understand that children rode bareback on velociraptors
before the Big Flood.
This is the mindset of approximately a quarter of all USAmericans.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 12-1-2017 23:57, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> On 01/12/2017 04:09 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> Christoph's had some worrying aspects about how science is
>> viewed/presented in a popular way. This is another - darker - aspect:
>>
>>
http://www.nature.com/news/fantasy-politics-over-fetal-tissue-research-1.21263?WT.ec_id=NATURE-20170112&spMailingID=53176252&spUserID=MjA1NzUyMzA4OAS2&spJobID=1082042362&spReportId=MTA4MjA0MjM2MgS2
>>
>
> The writers of said science fiction saga do not believe in facts. You
> can show them the evidence, the videos, the fossils, the birth
> certificates, and even the confessions and apologies of their own
> Republican leaders, and they will dismiss it all out of hand, because
> the facts stubbornly refuse to conform to their fixed beliefs.
>
> BTW, "fixed beliefs" is *their* terminology.
>
> Their attempt to redefine science is nothing new. They've been trying
> for years to force scientists in the USA to include the supernatural in
> their theories. This, of course, fits into their narrative that reality
> is defined by what they believe. If the scientific method isn't to
> their liking, they just redefine it, and cry "unfair" when scientists
> explain that they don't get to do that.
>
> We've even got an Australian immigrant, who's found fertile ground in
> the USA, lecturing scientists on what is proper science! And he's
> conned the Kentucky legislature into giving him a huge tax break on a
> big boat on dry land, because if scientists knew what they were doing,
> they'd obviously understand that children rode bareback on velociraptors
> before the Big Flood.
>
> This is the mindset of approximately a quarter of all USAmericans.
>
Yes indeed. I used to laugh about those "silly" Americans that thought
such quixotic things. For a number of years, I am not laughing any more
as the disease is spreading outside the US, and deriding/disbelieving
science in general is becoming fashionable in more places in the world,
including Europe. It is a worrisome development. With the new
administration in place, things are not likely to become better I am afraid.
--
Thomas
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Am 13.01.2017 um 08:54 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
> Yes indeed. I used to laugh about those "silly" Americans that thought
> such quixotic things. For a number of years, I am not laughing any more
> as the disease is spreading outside the US, and deriding/disbelieving
> science in general is becoming fashionable in more places in the world,
> including Europe. It is a worrisome development. With the new
> administration in place, things are not likely to become better I am
> afraid.
At least The Pumpkin himself doesn't seem to be motivated by religion.
Just by pure narcissism.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 13-1-2017 10:12, clipka wrote:
> Am 13.01.2017 um 08:54 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>
>> Yes indeed. I used to laugh about those "silly" Americans that thought
>> such quixotic things. For a number of years, I am not laughing any more
>> as the disease is spreading outside the US, and deriding/disbelieving
>> science in general is becoming fashionable in more places in the world,
>> including Europe. It is a worrisome development. With the new
>> administration in place, things are not likely to become better I am
>> afraid.
>
> At least The Pumpkin himself doesn't seem to be motivated by religion.
> Just by pure narcissism.
>
That is true, but is is not only about religion I am afraid. It is about
a growing scepticism about science /per se/. The internet and utube are
not entirely foreign to this.
--
Thomas
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 1/14/2017 7:49 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 13-1-2017 10:12, clipka wrote:
>> Am 13.01.2017 um 08:54 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>>
>>> Yes indeed. I used to laugh about those "silly" Americans that thought
>>> such quixotic things. For a number of years, I am not laughing any more
>>> as the disease is spreading outside the US, and deriding/disbelieving
>>> science in general is becoming fashionable in more places in the world,
>>> including Europe. It is a worrisome development. With the new
>>> administration in place, things are not likely to become better I am
>>> afraid.
>>
>> At least The Pumpkin himself doesn't seem to be motivated by religion.
>> Just by pure narcissism.
>>
>
> That is true, but is is not only about religion I am afraid. It is about
> a growing scepticism about science /per se/. The internet and utube are
> not entirely foreign to this.
>
It is the Revenge of The Turnip. [Creepy music]
When The Pumpkin supplanted The Turnip as the face o' Halloween. The
Great Neep cursed the land with the love of the Big and Easy. Then the
internet joined the dots.
--
Regards
Stephen
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
Am 14.01.2017 um 08:49 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
> On 13-1-2017 10:12, clipka wrote:
>> Am 13.01.2017 um 08:54 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>>
>>> Yes indeed. I used to laugh about those "silly" Americans that thought
>>> such quixotic things. For a number of years, I am not laughing any more
>>> as the disease is spreading outside the US, and deriding/disbelieving
>>> science in general is becoming fashionable in more places in the world,
>>> including Europe. It is a worrisome development. With the new
>>> administration in place, things are not likely to become better I am
>>> afraid.
>>
>> At least The Pumpkin himself doesn't seem to be motivated by religion.
>> Just by pure narcissism.
>>
>
> That is true, but is is not only about religion I am afraid. It is about
> a growing scepticism about science /per se/. The internet and utube are
> not entirely foreign to this.
What I actually find even more worrying is the growing scepticism about
the press. Free journalism plays an important role in any free society,
and widespread distrust in it might be just as disruptive to its
function as anything else.
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 14-1-2017 12:33, clipka wrote:
> Am 14.01.2017 um 08:49 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>> On 13-1-2017 10:12, clipka wrote:
>>> Am 13.01.2017 um 08:54 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>>>
>>>> Yes indeed. I used to laugh about those "silly" Americans that thought
>>>> such quixotic things. For a number of years, I am not laughing any more
>>>> as the disease is spreading outside the US, and deriding/disbelieving
>>>> science in general is becoming fashionable in more places in the world,
>>>> including Europe. It is a worrisome development. With the new
>>>> administration in place, things are not likely to become better I am
>>>> afraid.
>>>
>>> At least The Pumpkin himself doesn't seem to be motivated by religion.
>>> Just by pure narcissism.
>>>
>>
>> That is true, but is is not only about religion I am afraid. It is about
>> a growing scepticism about science /per se/. The internet and utube are
>> not entirely foreign to this.
>
> What I actually find even more worrying is the growing scepticism about
> the press. Free journalism plays an important role in any free society,
> and widespread distrust in it might be just as disruptive to its
> function as anything else.
>
You are absolutely right.
--
Thomas
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 1/14/2017 4:57 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 14-1-2017 12:33, clipka wrote:
>> Am 14.01.2017 um 08:49 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>>> On 13-1-2017 10:12, clipka wrote:
>>>> Am 13.01.2017 um 08:54 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>>>>
>>>>> Yes indeed. I used to laugh about those "silly" Americans that thought
>>>>> such quixotic things. For a number of years, I am not laughing any
>>>>> more
>>>>> as the disease is spreading outside the US, and deriding/disbelieving
>>>>> science in general is becoming fashionable in more places in the
>>>>> world,
>>>>> including Europe. It is a worrisome development. With the new
>>>>> administration in place, things are not likely to become better I am
>>>>> afraid.
>>>>
>>>> At least The Pumpkin himself doesn't seem to be motivated by religion.
>>>> Just by pure narcissism.
>>>>
>>>
>>> That is true, but is is not only about religion I am afraid. It is about
>>> a growing scepticism about science /per se/. The internet and utube are
>>> not entirely foreign to this.
>>
>> What I actually find even more worrying is the growing scepticism about
>> the press. Free journalism plays an important role in any free society,
>> and widespread distrust in it might be just as disruptive to its
>> function as anything else.
>>
>
> You are absolutely right.
>
Mind you, in this case, one needs to make a distinction between a "free
press", which may not have entirely ever existed, and one solely owned,
and directed, by specific people and ideologies. When one person owns
90% of the press on one side of the line, and the other side is owned,
again, by a similarly small handful of corporations, with their own
roughly uniform agenda... where is the "free" coming in exactly. Most of
radio is now owned by conservatives, who run the same people on there as
Fox News. Worse, the only opposition to them, on TV at least, is MSNBC,
which has been caught firing people, like Fox does, for saying things
that their owners don't like, even when factual, and CNN - which the
running joke has, in recent years, been either than they should start
re-running old content, where they used to get things right once in a
while, or that they just repeat what everyone else says, without
bothering to check if any of it is factually accurate - i.e., "We report
the news, what ever the heck someone else thinks is the news. Its not
our job to check any of it."
Most of the "free press" as is stands today is online, not even if the
news stands (where often, if you are lucky, instead of 10 papers, from
all over the country, you might get one local one, one right wing owned
one, a few rags/penny dreadful types, and maybe one from a nearby bigger
city. Heck, here we get the local, which is worthless, one from another
state, because no one will deliver the nearest one from Pheonix, and the
bloody Wallstreet Urinal.). And, of course, the biggest problem with the
online sources is that there *is* no news stand, so everyone just
migrates, in most cases, to which ever source most supports their views,
even if that means the "source" is batshit insane places like Info Wars,
or the like.
Its kind of hard to have a true free press when "all" of them are owned
by political entities, with their single goal being, "Tell people what
we want them to believe, not what is actually happening."
Of course no one trusts the press right now, especially in the US. The
problem is... most of them only really distrust the press that is
telling them the opposite of what they want to hear, not the whole mess
in general. So, its always the "other side" that needs to be fixed, and
to stop lying.
--
Commander Vimes: "You take a bunch of people who don't seem any
different from you and me, but when you add them all together you get
this sort of huge raving maniac with national borders and an anthem."
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
On 14-1-2017 13:25, Patrick Elliott wrote:
> On 1/14/2017 4:57 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> On 14-1-2017 12:33, clipka wrote:
>>> Am 14.01.2017 um 08:49 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>>>> On 13-1-2017 10:12, clipka wrote:
>>>>> Am 13.01.2017 um 08:54 schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Yes indeed. I used to laugh about those "silly" Americans that
>>>>>> thought
>>>>>> such quixotic things. For a number of years, I am not laughing any
>>>>>> more
>>>>>> as the disease is spreading outside the US, and deriding/disbelieving
>>>>>> science in general is becoming fashionable in more places in the
>>>>>> world,
>>>>>> including Europe. It is a worrisome development. With the new
>>>>>> administration in place, things are not likely to become better I am
>>>>>> afraid.
>>>>>
>>>>> At least The Pumpkin himself doesn't seem to be motivated by religion.
>>>>> Just by pure narcissism.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> That is true, but is is not only about religion I am afraid. It is
>>>> about
>>>> a growing scepticism about science /per se/. The internet and utube are
>>>> not entirely foreign to this.
>>>
>>> What I actually find even more worrying is the growing scepticism about
>>> the press. Free journalism plays an important role in any free society,
>>> and widespread distrust in it might be just as disruptive to its
>>> function as anything else.
>>>
>>
>> You are absolutely right.
>>
> Mind you, in this case, one needs to make a distinction between a "free
> press", which may not have entirely ever existed, and one solely owned,
> and directed, by specific people and ideologies. When one person owns
> 90% of the press on one side of the line, and the other side is owned,
> again, by a similarly small handful of corporations, with their own
> roughly uniform agenda... where is the "free" coming in exactly. Most of
> radio is now owned by conservatives, who run the same people on there as
> Fox News. Worse, the only opposition to them, on TV at least, is MSNBC,
> which has been caught firing people, like Fox does, for saying things
> that their owners don't like, even when factual, and CNN - which the
> running joke has, in recent years, been either than they should start
> re-running old content, where they used to get things right once in a
> while, or that they just repeat what everyone else says, without
> bothering to check if any of it is factually accurate - i.e., "We report
> the news, what ever the heck someone else thinks is the news. Its not
> our job to check any of it."
>
> Most of the "free press" as is stands today is online, not even if the
> news stands (where often, if you are lucky, instead of 10 papers, from
> all over the country, you might get one local one, one right wing owned
> one, a few rags/penny dreadful types, and maybe one from a nearby bigger
> city. Heck, here we get the local, which is worthless, one from another
> state, because no one will deliver the nearest one from Pheonix, and the
> bloody Wallstreet Urinal.). And, of course, the biggest problem with the
> online sources is that there *is* no news stand, so everyone just
> migrates, in most cases, to which ever source most supports their views,
> even if that means the "source" is batshit insane places like Info Wars,
> or the like.
>
> Its kind of hard to have a true free press when "all" of them are owned
> by political entities, with their single goal being, "Tell people what
> we want them to believe, not what is actually happening."
>
> Of course no one trusts the press right now, especially in the US. The
> problem is... most of them only really distrust the press that is
> telling them the opposite of what they want to hear, not the whole mess
> in general. So, its always the "other side" that needs to be fixed, and
> to stop lying.
>
The only press I recognise are the fact-finding and fact-checking
national newspapers like Le Monde in France for instance. Each country
has at least one of those. They can make errors and misjudgements but I
recognise them as honest.
--
Thomas
Post a reply to this message
|
|
| |
| |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
|
