On 15/02/2015 02:42 PM, nemesis wrote:
> they are useful idiots

Why does that sound like a band name...

> Bach (and many other bright composers from the highly specialized and complex
> instrumental music of that era) was much like as autistic as we are.  Hence, his
> many bouts of fury against his patrons, arrests, etc.  He simply didn't know how
> to harmoniously deal with other human beings as he did with an organ.  He did
> teach his children pretty well though.  His oldest 2 sons were as capable as
> himself as performer and just had a different composing style because times had
> changed...

Harmoniously.

I SEE WHAT YOU DID THERE! ;-)

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>> There is something deeply worrying about... OK, so let's try this. Come
>> on this journey with me.
>
> [snip]
>
> As I said, I am truly appalled about what you tell. It is unbelievable
> but I suppose I am naive... ;-)

I sincerely hope this is unique to the computing field.

I *think* it's because what we programmers produce is so intangible. 
Like, if you hire somebody to build an office block, and they bash a few 
bits of wood into the ground in the shape of a rectangle, you tell them 
they're fired, and then you sue them into oblivion. [Which I gather is 
some kind of MMO?] But if you commission somebody to build a payroll 
system, you can't really tell that it's just an MS Access skin - unless 
you're enough of a computer expert that you don't need to hire an expert 
in the first place!

That, I *think*, is maybe what the problem is. Although I do wonder how 
nobody gets electrocuted because the "electrician" they hired doesn't 
actually know how electricity works...

>> I wonder... Does anybody have this much trouble hiring a carpenter?
>
> No, but I am starting to worry.

It does make you wonder, doesn't it?

>> I guess that just leaves us with the problem of nobody wanting to learn
>> then. ;-)
>
> Sad, sad, sad. I believe learning is one of those rare incentives that
> make life worthwhile.

I find all this stuff fascinating - but then again, I'm weird, so...

But still, there *was* a time when the great mathematicians, physicists 
and engineers of the day were lionised as visionary idols... Now we have 
Pop Idol. *sigh*

>> I'm sure if I give a lecture while doing the Charleston to some
>> authentic music, everybody will remember me. No idea if they'll remember
>> a damned thing I said, but... ^_^
>
> Right. You can overdo it. Watching lecturers is a great school for do's
> and dont's. I have seen hilarious examples of dont's... ;-)

"The Charleston lectures" would make a hell of an Internet meme though...

...you know, I mean if I could actually *speak* while doing the 
Charleston, instead of gasping for air...

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On 15/02/2015 20:36, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>> Good body awareness is important. You don't want to knock your coffee
>>> over your notes.
>>>
>> Oh dear, no! Nor drop all your overhead sheets on the ground as I saw
>> happen :-)
>
> You must never do a tango with an Eskimo. No no no, oh dear no!
>
> [I still don't actually know why...]

If you do, you'll get the breeze up
And you'll end up with a freeze up

[And you would not want her to break it off.]

-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Orchid Win7 v1 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> Still, at least he could speak English. Many of my lecturers couldn't
> (or at least not very well). Seriously, if your JOB is to teach people
> who only speak English, not being able to speak English is surely an
> instant disqualification. No?!?

are you sure people in the UK still speak english?

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On 15-2-2015 22:16, Stephen wrote:
> On 15/02/2015 20:36, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>>> Good body awareness is important. You don't want to knock your coffee
>>>> over your notes.
>>>>
>>> Oh dear, no! Nor drop all your overhead sheets on the ground as I saw
>>> happen :-)
>>
>> You must never do a tango with an Eskimo. No no no, oh dear no!
>>
>> [I still don't actually know why...]
>
> If you do, you'll get the breeze up
> And you'll end up with a freeze up
>
> [And you would not want her to break it off.]
>
ROTFL

-- 
Thomas

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On 15-2-2015 16:38, Stephen wrote:
> On 15/02/2015 15:22, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> Oh dear, no! Nor drop all your overhead sheets on the ground as I saw
>> happen :-)
>>
>
> You are giving your age away, now. ;-)
> Those sheets seemed to have no friction between them at all.
> Or so someone told me. :-)
>

I know. Overhead sheets are only found in museums nowadays.

No friction? well yes but often to the contrary. The damn things often 
stuck together like hell with static electricity! But as you could put 
them in individual holders they became a manageable pile.

-- 
Thomas

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On 15-2-2015 21:45, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>> I wonder... Does anybody have this much trouble hiring a carpenter?
>>
>> No, but I am starting to worry.
>
> It does make you wonder, doesn't it?

It does, and with the trash sent over from China it is often a nightmare 
come true. Nowadays, I often control /where/ devices are put together, 
even the labels with a traditional reputation. :-(

[snip]

>
>>> I'm sure if I give a lecture while doing the Charleston to some
>>> authentic music, everybody will remember me. No idea if they'll remember
>>> a damned thing I said, but... ^_^
>>
>> Right. You can overdo it. Watching lecturers is a great school for do's
>> and dont's. I have seen hilarious examples of dont's... ;-)
>
> "The Charleston lectures" would make a hell of an Internet meme though...
>
> ...you know, I mean if I could actually *speak* while doing the
> Charleston, instead of gasping for air...

LOL That would be a great show indeed!

-- 
Thomas

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>> You are giving your age away, now. ;-)
>> Those sheets seemed to have no friction between them at all.
>> Or so someone told me. :-)
>
> I know. Overhead sheets are only found in museums nowadays.

Oh, I don't know. When I was at uni, every time assignments were due, 
you could *guarantee* that some moron will have put overhead sheets 
through the library laser printer - the WRONG overhead sheets. The ones 
that melt in the fuser unit. :-S

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> According to the Academia Stack Exchange portal, it seems if you have a
> PhD, everybody immediately assumes you're going to be hellishly
> expensive to hire and summarily drops you from consideration.
>
> Unless you want to work in the finance industry, which only exists in
> London.

I work for a manufacturing company about 50 miles away from London, and 
we have quite a few PhDs working in our R&D team (physics and chemistry) 
and in more senior positions elesewhere in the company. We certainly 
wouldn't reject your application just for having a PhD.

My previous employer was much more R&D oriented and at least 50% of the 
staff had PhDs. Didn't you have some at your previous job too? Maybe the 
problem you highlight is unique to people with computer science PhDs?

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>> In short, I haven't come across a lesson where people are there because
>> they actually *want* to learn something. Most of them are just seem to
>> want the bit of paper that makes employers think they're awesome.
>>
>
>
> You are too pessimistic I believe (or the world has changed too much).
> Except for the last point (the Microsoft course) with which I agree, at
> all other levels I have been with people who genuinely wanted to /know/
> and to /learn/. Not all of them of course but a substantial part, yes.

I have to agree with Andy here, my experience of school (compulsory up 
to age 16) and sixth form college (optional up to age 18) is that most 
people didn't want to learn. Obviously there were some who did, but the 
majority you felt were there because someone else had told them to be 
there but they didn't want to be. It was a place to meet people and hang 
out, having to go to lessons and do homework was an inconvenience.

It was only when I got to University that it was suddenly full of people 
who actually wanted to be there and wanted to learn. But I think there 
are likely only a few Universities like that with that atmosphere, 
speaking to friends elsewhere it sounded like other Universities were 
just like school and college where people would spend more effort trying 
to avoid doing any work that actually learning anything.

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