On 04/02/2014 08:50, scott wrote:
>
> It doesn't make sense that the rest of the UK doesn't get to vote on
> this. OK so nobody probably cares that much with Scotland,

O_o

> but what if
> next London decides to hold a vote to leave the UK?
>

Now there's a thought ;-) If we add in the rest of the Home Counties, we 
would very probably be financially self-sustaining.

John

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>> It doesn't make sense that the rest of the UK doesn't get to vote on
>> this. OK so nobody probably cares that much with Scotland,
>
> O_o

If they did care then there would be a lot more fuss about the rest of 
the UK not being allowed to vote. I just hope that whatever the outcome 
Alex Salmond doesn't come on my TV as often. I'm already dreading the 
near-continuous coverage the BBC is going to run in the weeks beforehand 
for something that 90% of the license-fee payers have absolutely no 
influence over.

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scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> >> BTW Given the chance to vote, independence or not?
> >>
> >
> > Since I don't have a vote, does it matter?
> > But since you ask and thank you. No, I would not like to see the union,
> > broken up.
>
> It doesn't make sense that the rest of the UK doesn't get to vote on
> this.

> OK so nobody probably cares that much with Scotland,

I won't say anything but just point out that you said it.


> but what if
> next London decides to hold a vote to leave the UK? Shouldn't the rest
> of us have a say?

From my experience of working with people from all over the British Islands.
(N.B. for others. That is not the same as the British Isles)

They would be only to glad to see the back of London and Londoners.

One thing that my sister in law said (and she is a nay sayer) is that she has
not heard anyone, outside Scotland, publicly say that they did not want Scotland
to leave. It would be nice if someone did.

Stephen

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Doctor John <j.g### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> On 04/02/2014 06:36, Stephen wrote:

>
> Hmm. Interesting point. At the risk of starting another holy war, I
> would be prepared to bet that we Brits are amongst the most racially
> diverse nations on Earth (both individually and nationally). I
> personally am a mix of several nations (English, Scottish, Dutch,
> Hungarian, German and a distinct possibility of Indian if you go back to
> the early 19th century)
>

I thought that a lot of it had to do with until America was opened up. The
British Isles were the furthest west that you could go. That and in the dark and
medieval ages. Britain was rich and imported continental workers, many of whom
stayed. And all the invading Scandinavian, Germanic and French armies. (Almost
forgot the Spanish from the armada who were shipwrecked on the North West
coast.)

We are a mongrel race.


> >
> >
> > What ever do you mean?
> > Woad -> blue -> pills? ;-)
> >
>
> I think I'll skip the pills. One Feegle's enough.
>


You have to keep the old skills up. ;-)
Practice, practice, practice.


> >
>
> <Wanders off, singing 'The Roses o' Prince Charlie'>
>


Can you sing, Over the Hills and Far Away?

<Boom! Boom!>

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On 04/02/14 09:46, Stephen wrote:
> 
> From my experience of working with people from all over the British Islands.
> (N.B. for others. That is not the same as the British Isles)
> 

Indeed. And just to confuse them a bit more, neither of those is
synonymous with either Great Britain or The United Kingdom. As we all
know, the Isle of Man and the Channel Isles (themselves being split into
two independent Bailiwicks - Jersey and Guernsey) are Crown Dependencies
and are not members of the European Union

> They would be only to glad to see the back of London and Londoners.
> 
> One thing that my sister in law said (and she is a nay sayer) is that she has
> not heard anyone, outside Scotland, publicly say that they did not want Scotland
> to leave. It would be nice if someone did.
> 

OK. I'll say it. I don't want Scotland to leave the Union.

Quite apart from the political and financial problems* it would cause we
have a shared history going back hundreds of years. Like it or not we
are a family with all the good and bad things that the term implies.
Sure, we squabble but threaten our unity and you'd be asking for real
trouble.


* 1. The Governor of the Bank of England is on record as stating that an
independent Scotland could not retain the pound sterling.
2. If Scotland left, it would have to reapply for membership of the
European Union and that would be in no way a done deal. Spain, for one
and with an eye on Catalonian independence, would probably veto the deal.


John
-- 
Protect the Earth
It was not given to you by your parents
You hold it in trust for your children

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Doctor John <j.g### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> On 04/02/14 09:46, Stephen wrote:
> >
> > From my experience of working with people from all over the British Islands.
> > (N.B. for others. That is not the same as the British Isles)
> >
>
> Indeed. And just to confuse them a bit more, neither of those is
> synonymous with either Great Britain or The United Kingdom. As we all
> know, the Isle of Man and the Channel Isles (themselves being split into
> two independent Bailiwicks - Jersey and Guernsey) are Crown Dependencies
> and are not members of the European Union
>

As you say and yet some people get confused.


> > They would be only to glad to see the back of London and Londoners.
> >
> > One thing that my sister in law said (and she is a nay sayer) is that she has
> > not heard anyone, outside Scotland, publicly say that they did not want Scotland
> > to leave. It would be nice if someone did.
> >
>
> OK. I'll say it. I don't want Scotland to leave the Union.
>

It doesn't count if you had to be asked, I'm afraid. :-(


> Quite apart from the political and financial problems* it would cause we
> have a shared history going back hundreds of years. Like it or not we
> are a family with all the good and bad things that the term implies.
> Sure, we squabble but threaten our unity and you'd be asking for real
> trouble.
>
>

Yes, things were going well until the Romans put their ballistae in reverse and
scampered.

> * 1. The Governor of the Bank of England is on record as stating that an
> independent Scotland could not retain the pound sterling.
> 2. If Scotland left, it would have to reapply for membership of the
> European Union and that would be in no way a done deal. Spain, for one
> and with an eye on Catalonian independence, would probably veto the deal.
>
>

No point in telling politicians anything that bears any resemblance to the
truth. They would not recognise it.
Facts are an inconvenience.


S

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scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> >> It doesn't make sense that the rest of the UK doesn't get to vote on
> >> this. OK so nobody probably cares that much with Scotland,
> >
> > O_o
>
> If they did care then there would be a lot more fuss about the rest of
> the UK not being allowed to vote.


I get the impression that most people think it is not really their business. And

English people too much credit.
I will agree the Scots think more about the English than the English do about
the Scots.

 I just hope that whatever the outcome
> Alex Salmond doesn't come on my TV as often.

You and me both.

I'm already dreading the
> near-continuous coverage the BBC is going to run in the weeks beforehand
> for something that 90% of the license-fee payers have absolutely no
> influence over.


an irrelevance.

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> On 04/02/14 09:46, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>  From my experience of working with people from all over the British Islands.
>> (N.B. for others. That is not the same as the British Isles)
>>
>
> Indeed. And just to confuse them a bit more, neither of those is
> synonymous with either Great Britain or The United Kingdom. As we all
> know, the Isle of Man and the Channel Isles (themselves being split into
> two independent Bailiwicks - Jersey and Guernsey) are Crown Dependencies
> and are not members of the European Union
>
>> They would be only to glad to see the back of London and Londoners.
>>
>> One thing that my sister in law said (and she is a nay sayer) is that she has
>> not heard anyone, outside Scotland, publicly say that they did not want Scotland
>> to leave. It would be nice if someone did.
>>
>
> OK. I'll say it. I don't want Scotland to leave the Union.
>
> Quite apart from the political and financial problems* it would cause we
> have a shared history going back hundreds of years. Like it or not we
> are a family with all the good and bad things that the term implies.
> Sure, we squabble but threaten our unity and you'd be asking for real
> trouble.
>
>
> * 1. The Governor of the Bank of England is on record as stating that an
> independent Scotland could not retain the pound sterling.

That's hard to enforce.  There's nothing - apart from tanks and bombers 
- today preventing everyone in one country to use, say the US dollar, 
the pound or the Euro, as its own internal currency.  Just Like Zimbabwe 
did a few years back, when their currency collapsed.

> 2. If Scotland left, it would have to reapply for membership of the
> European Union and that would be in no way a done deal. Spain, for one
> and with an eye on Catalonian independence, would probably veto the deal.

As someone living in a part of a country where a sizeable portion of the 
population wants to get out of said country as well, things such as 
international trade agreements and economic concerns in general usually 
do not enter in their reasoning.


-- 
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On 04/02/2014 5:26 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
>>
>> * 1. The Governor of the Bank of England is on record as stating that an
>> independent Scotland could not retain the pound sterling.
>
> That's hard to enforce.  There's nothing - apart from tanks and bombers
> - today preventing everyone in one country to use, say the US dollar,
> the pound or the Euro, as its own internal currency.  Just Like Zimbabwe
> did a few years back, when their currency collapsed.
>

I am not so sure about that. There are several countries, that I know 
of, who use the US dollar but that is generally unofficial. I think that 
I have heard of one country that has dual official currencies. Money is 
a token and unless it is recognised by other countries it is valueless 
to buy and pay for international goods and services.
I will ask one of our financial consultants, tomorrow.


>> 2. If Scotland left, it would have to reapply for membership of the
>> European Union and that would be in no way a done deal. Spain, for one
>> and with an eye on Catalonian independence, would probably veto the deal.
>
> As someone living in a part of a country where a sizeable portion of the
> population wants to get out of said country as well, things such as
> international trade agreements and economic concerns in general usually
> do not enter in their reasoning.
>

How true, if you can call it reasoning.
It is generally the heart that rules in these matters. That is why, in 
my opinion, the Scottish First Minister is allowing 16 year olds to vote 
(and not non-residents).
BTW I've been reading a bit about the French Language police. You would 
not credit it. Good luck with World Peace. ;-)

-- 
Regards
     Stephen

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> On 04/02/2014 5:26 PM, Francois Labreque wrote:
>>>
>>> * 1. The Governor of the Bank of England is on record as stating that an
>>> independent Scotland could not retain the pound sterling.
>>
>> That's hard to enforce.  There's nothing - apart from tanks and bombers
>> - today preventing everyone in one country to use, say the US dollar,
>> the pound or the Euro, as its own internal currency.  Just Like Zimbabwe
>> did a few years back, when their currency collapsed.
>>
>
> I am not so sure about that. There are several countries, that I know
> of, who use the US dollar but that is generally unofficial. I think that
> I have heard of one country that has dual official currencies. Money is
> a token and unless it is recognised by other countries it is valueless
> to buy and pay for international goods and services.
> I will ask one of our financial consultants, tomorrow.
>
>
>>> 2. If Scotland left, it would have to reapply for membership of the
>>> European Union and that would be in no way a done deal. Spain, for one
>>> and with an eye on Catalonian independence, would probably veto the
>>> deal.
>>
>> As someone living in a part of a country where a sizeable portion of the
>> population wants to get out of said country as well, things such as
>> international trade agreements and economic concerns in general usually
>> do not enter in their reasoning.
>>
>
> How true, if you can call it reasoning.
> It is generally the heart that rules in these matters. That is why, in
> my opinion, the Scottish First Minister is allowing 16 year olds to vote
> (and not non-residents).
> BTW I've been reading a bit about the French Language police. You would
> not credit it. Good luck with World Peace. ;-)
>

Don't get me started on them...  It may have been initially a good 
thing, in some instances, such as making sure that people could read the 
contracts they were signing, but I personally think they go too far and 
in true government busybody fashion, they have a tendency to trip over 
the flowers of the carpet, as we say in French.

My take on languages (and culture in general) is a free-market approach. 
  Your product should be interesting enough that people will want to buy 
it.  They should focus on making people _like_ French so that they will 
want to use it, instead of forcing italian restaurants to remove the 
words "insalata" and "antipasto" from their menus, or making sure that 
the Arabic words on the mosque's sign are smaller than the French.

-- 
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