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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: One of the greatest mysteries of screenwriting
Date: 22 Dec 2013 03:54:45
Message: <52b6a8d5@news.povray.org>
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On 22/12/2013 2:29 AM, clipka wrote:
> Am 21.12.2013 21:38, schrieb Stephen:
>
>> The thing that annoys me most is the moral tone. No bad deed or person
>> goes unpunished. So like life.
>
> I'm fine with moral tone - if it's a positive moral.
Generally speaking, I agree but it is tiring that the good guys always
win and the black hats always lose.
> But Hollywood (and
> unfortunately the vast majority of other movies as well) demands that
> anything adversary - be it people or conditions - needs to be
> /defeated/; reconciliation is rarely ever presented as an option.
>
That too.
--
Regards
Stephen
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From: Warp
Subject: Re: One of the greatest mysteries of screenwriting
Date: 22 Dec 2013 04:08:53
Message: <52b6ac25@news.povray.org>
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clipka <ano### [at] anonymous org> wrote:
> I'm fine with moral tone - if it's a positive moral. But Hollywood (and
> unfortunately the vast majority of other movies as well) demands that
> anything adversary - be it people or conditions - needs to be
> /defeated/; reconciliation is rarely ever presented as an option.
In comics the bad guy basically never dies. It makes sense: The heros
are not murderers.
In movies, however, the bad guy basically always dies.
One example in particular comes to mind because of how the creators
regretted killing the antagonist: The 1989 Batman movie. Since the
character of the Joker became so immensely popular, the producers
regretted having killed him, and thus he couldn't be in the sequels.
They were seriously thinking of bringing him back using some dumbass
reason.
This might have been one of the reasons why they made an unusual
exception in The Dark Knight: They probably learned their lesson.
Too bad nobody else has learned it.
--
- Warp
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On 22/12/2013 9:08 AM, Warp wrote:
> In comics the bad guy basically never dies. It makes sense: The heros
> are not murderers.
>
> In movies, however, the bad guy basically always dies.
So at the very best, you know the ending as soon as you know who the bad
guy is.
--
Regards
Stephen
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From: Orchid Win7 v1
Subject: Re: One of the greatest mysteries of screenwriting
Date: 22 Dec 2013 11:19:02
Message: <52b710f6$1@news.povray.org>
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On 22/12/2013 03:55 PM, Stephen wrote:
> On 22/12/2013 9:08 AM, Warp wrote:
>> In comics the bad guy basically never dies. It makes sense: The heros
>> are not murderers.
>>
>> In movies, however, the bad guy basically always dies.
>
> So at the very best, you know the ending as soon as you know who the bad
> guy is.
Unless it's Megamind, in which case the bad guy BECOMES the good guy
after the good guy resigns and the bad guy creates a badder guy who
tries to destroy the city and then they do a laser show to Welcome To
The Jungle and have an epic battle that ends in OLLO...
...wait, that didn't make any sense, did it?
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Am 22.12.2013 16:55, schrieb Stephen:
> On 22/12/2013 9:08 AM, Warp wrote:
>> In comics the bad guy basically never dies. It makes sense: The heros
>> are not murderers.
>>
>> In movies, however, the bad guy basically always dies.
>
> So at the very best, you know the ending as soon as you know who the bad
> guy is.
... which usually isn't very hard to tell either.
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On 22/12/2013 4:19 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
> On 22/12/2013 03:55 PM, Stephen wrote:
>> On 22/12/2013 9:08 AM, Warp wrote:
>>> In comics the bad guy basically never dies. It makes sense: The heros
>>> are not murderers.
>>>
>>> In movies, however, the bad guy basically always dies.
>>
>> So at the very best, you know the ending as soon as you know who the bad
>> guy is.
>
> Unless it's Megamind, in which case the bad guy BECOMES the good guy
> after the good guy resigns and the bad guy creates a badder guy who
> tries to destroy the city and then they do a laser show to Welcome To
> The Jungle and have an epic battle that ends in OLLO...
>
> ....wait, that didn't make any sense, did it?
It makes perfect sense.
The good guy wins.
--
Regards
Stephen
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On 22/12/2013 4:19 PM, clipka wrote:
>> So at the very best, you know the ending as soon as you know who the bad
>> guy is.
>
> ... which usually isn't very hard to tell either.
Indeed and he often has, what passes for, an English accent, too.
--
Regards
Stephen
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From: Orchid Win7 v1
Subject: Re: One of the greatest mysteries of screenwriting
Date: 22 Dec 2013 12:25:28
Message: <52b72088$1@news.povray.org>
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>>> So at the very best, you know the ending as soon as you know who the bad
>>> guy is.
>>
>> Unless it's Megamind, in which case the bad guy BECOMES the good guy
>> after the good guy resigns and the bad guy creates a badder guy who
>> tries to destroy the city and then they do a laser show to Welcome To
>> The Jungle and have an epic battle that ends in OLLO...
>>
>> ....wait, that didn't make any sense, did it?
>
> It makes perfect sense.
> The good guy wins.
Or rather, the bad guy BECOMES the good guy, and then wins.
And absolutely nobody dies. Although the fish nearly ended up sleeping
with the fishes... wait, what?
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On 22/12/2013 5:25 PM, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>>>
>>> ....wait, that didn't make any sense, did it?
>>
>> It makes perfect sense.
>> The good guy wins.
>
> Or rather, the bad guy BECOMES the good guy, and then wins.
And the good guy wins.
Moral, the good guy wins.
--
Regards
Stephen
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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: One of the greatest mysteries of screenwriting
Date: 22 Dec 2013 14:31:52
Message: <52b73e28@news.povray.org>
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On Sun, 22 Dec 2013 08:54:25 +0000, Stephen wrote:
> Generally speaking, I agree but it is tiring that the good guys always
> win and the black hats always lose.
That's one thing I really look for when I'm looking for a good film or TV
series - ambiguity in who the good guys and the bad guys are.
I really liked the remade Battlestar Galactica for this reason - I mean,
the clarity in the start between the "good" and "bad" guys was clear, but
as the programme progressed, you saw that it wasn't really as clear cut.
Breaking Bad was similar, in that there really weren't /any/ good guys at
all - all the characters were flawed to some extent.
But writers and producers seem less willing these days to write stories
that have such ambiguity in them. Well, let's face it - these days,
we're lucky to get anything that's actually a well thought-out story.
It's more likely to be some "reality TV" garbage that's cheap to produce
and makes shedloads of money from advertisers. Heck, the "Sci Fi"
channel (now sickeningly called "SyFy") is mostly *Wrestling* shows. WTF?
Jim
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