Am 15.01.2013 19:09, schrieb Warp:

> People should be more honest. Don't invent excuses. If you want to use
> the software completely ignoring the owner's wishes, then be a man and
> just say so. "I don't care what they say. I'm going to download and use
> their software because I want to. I don't care if it's illegal or immoral."

FYI: I'm not discussing the moral side of it. Because in a discussion 
about moral we'd need to talk about a whole lot more than just the act 
of downloading a piece of software that somebody doesn't want you to 
get. We'd also have to talk about the morality of the other side; and 
let's face the truth: Big companies typically give a shit about morality.

How to make money from something creative has been a big unsolved issue 
for I'd guess about hundred years. Well, maybe there's a new, viable 
solution emerging with kickstarter & co.

Besides: No, I'm not downloading Adobe's old software.

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Am 15.01.2013 17:38, schrieb Warp:

> A closer example would be the images on a website: Just becuse you can
> download the image files from a website doesn't somehow automatically
> give you the right to use them as you want. This even if there's no
> copyright statement or usage restrictions mentioned anywhere in the
> website.
>
> There's zero difference between an image file and a computer program.
> Just because you *can* download a program from a website doesn't mean
> that you somehow automatically get the right to use it however you want.

Sorry, but that's utter rubbish.

There isn't much you can do with an image that doesn't also involve 
redistribution (be it in the original or a modified form).

There is (typically) a /lot/ you can do with a piece of software that 
does /not/ involve redistribution.

Software is more akin to a scientific paper: If you can get hold of a 
copy, you /can/ (by default) freely make use of the knowledge presented 
therein (except of course if patents are involved).


> Copyright is automatic and does not need to be stated explicitly, and
> the *default* is that if there's no usage license, you can *not* use it.

No. The default is that there is no implied license to /copy/; there 
/is/ a default implied license to redistribute the very copy you 
received from an authorized distributor (in some countries you can't 
even explicitly deny that right), and yes - there /is/ a default implied 
license to /use/ the piece of work however you deem fit (provided that 
the use doesn't involve copying it).

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Am 16.01.2013 03:41, schrieb Kenneth:

> Something to ponder: Since the download page doesn't 'match' Adobe's official
> announcement, it makes me wonder if there is some kind of mild turmoil going on
> within the company--various factions having differing opinions as to what to do
> about this situation. Otherwise, it seems to me that Adobe would have done
> *something* more obvious and clear by now, to make things less equivocal. (The
> company's "do not download" statement appearing solely on various techie sites
> doesn't qualify as 'unequivocal,' in light of the download page itself saying
> nothing similar.)
>
> OR, as has been mentioned, perhaps Adobe just doesn't care.

OR what they really want is to be generous about people downloading the 
stuff, but sue the ass off anyone who tries to re-distribute it for money.

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clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:

>
> OR what they really want is to be generous about people downloading the
> stuff, but sue the ass off anyone who tries to re-distribute it for money.

Egads, I hadn't thought of that. So my nefarious plan to sell Adobe's 8-year-old
software to all my friends just went down the tubes. :-P

Ooh, maybe I shouldn't even joke about that here. :-O

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Am 16.01.2013 05:59, schrieb Kenneth:
> clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>
>>
>> OR what they really want is to be generous about people downloading the
>> stuff, but sue the ass off anyone who tries to re-distribute it for money.
>
> Egads, I hadn't thought of that. So my nefarious plan to sell Adobe's 8-year-old
> software to all my friends just went down the tubes. :-P
>
> Ooh, maybe I shouldn't even joke about that here. :-O

I was thinking more along the lines of computer magazines putting 
Adobe's software on some DVD.

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>> Surely the author loses that right the moment they make it available for
>> free to the general public? Otherwise you'd end up with the absurd
>> situation where I could upload a program or book I wrote to my website,
>> wait a few months, then prosecute all the people who read/installed it
>> for not having my permission. It would probably never even get to court
>> in the first place, the judge would laugh at you.
>
> So according to your logic, if someone distributes a program on their
> website, they relinquish all rights to it.

I never said all rights, just the right that you can then go ahead later 
and claim people need to pay for it. As I said, that would lead to 
absurd situations.

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> of silly excuses like "you distributed it in your webpage, therefore
> I don't have to listen what you are actually saying; by doing that you
> have relinquished all rights to your own work to me."

You're the one exaggerating now, nobody expects to relinquish all rights 
just because you put your program on your webpage for free download 
(without any message that you have to pay for it or it is limited use 
etc.). What people do expect, is that you have relinquished your right 
to then *charge* the people who downloaded it. That is likely illegal 
sales practise in most places and the sort of thing that consumer 
protection agencies frown upon.

> (It doesn't matter
> that the law is on the author's side. It also doesn't matter that *morally*
> it's wrong to use the work when the author explicitly says that he doesn't
> want you to.)

The law is not on the author's side - an author can't give you something 
for free then come around a week later and demand you pay for it.

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> But here's the catch (IMO): Adobe's official announcement is not actually ON the
> download page--it seems to be everywhere *but* there.

Their official announcement was also before they made the page available 
to everyone (previously you needed to log in). There has been no 
official announcement since they made that download page and put it up 
for the public to access.

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>> OR, as has been mentioned, perhaps Adobe just doesn't care.
>
> OR what they really want is to be generous about people downloading the
> stuff, but sue the ass off anyone who tries to re-distribute it for money.

OR they just want more people to try out their software, nothing like 
getting front-page news on all the tech websites to help that along :-)

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scott <sco### [at] scottcom> wrote:
> >> OR, as has been mentioned, perhaps Adobe just doesn't care.
> >
> > OR what they really want is to be generous about people downloading the
> > stuff, but sue the ass off anyone who tries to re-distribute it for money.
>
> OR they just want more people to try out their software, nothing like
> getting front-page news on all the tech websites to help that along :-)

It worked ;-)

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