> Finding the right balance between selectivity and volume is tricky.

This.

I'm really not sure I'm hitting this quite right at the moment.

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> And we an testify that you
> - are a good technical writer
> - are very motivated to learn new things
> - have in some areas of CS a good knowledge, in particular in the more
> mathematical fields

Heh. Shame I can't put that on my CV. ;-)

> - do not have a problem posting about internal issues in your company

...well, maybe not.

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On 04/08/2012 10:23 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:

> Recruiters generally won't be angry about having their time wasted by
> unqualified candidates.  They get paid to properly identify the qualified
> and unqualified candidates.  So being a bad fit isn't your problem to
> solve.  It's their job to make that determination.

I was on the phone to one recruiter, and she kept asking me "Are you 
serious? Are you messing me around?" And after a few minutes, she told 
me "You're not for real. You're wasting my time." And then she just hung 
up on me. I've never had that before...

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>> ...right... so given that I don't know anybody, I should just give up
>> now?
>> Is that what you're saying?
>
> You know people here.

Sure. But I don't see any way that's going to help me get a job. Only a 
tiny fraction of the people here live in the same country. And it's not 
like just because you work for company X, that means you can hire somebody.

> You know coworkers that you work with - coworkers
> who are all in the same boat as you are.
>
> That actually gives you a leg up in finding jobs in other companies
> together.  When I was laid off from Novell (and my former coworkers at
> Albertsons are learning this now as well as they've all just been made
> redundant), those of us who were laid off looked out for each other.
>
> Take some time and talk with some of your soon-to-be former coworkers.
> Ask them what they are looking for, tell them what you're looking for.
> If you see something that looks like it might be a good fit for them,
> tell them - they'll do the same for you.
>
> They are in a position to empathize with your situation because you share
> it.  That's something that you all can benefit from.

That's a nice idea. But remember:

- I'm the one and only computer guy in a company full of lab guys.

- I live in a different city.

- I'm at a different life stage. (They're all married with children, for 
example.)

I've never really fitted in at work.

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On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 23:47:52 +0200, clipka wrote:

> Am 04.08.2012 23:33, schrieb Jim Henderson:
>> On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 22:58:34 +0200, clipka wrote:
>>
>>> Congratulations, you just discovered another soft skill of yours:
>>> Honesty and trustworthiness.
>>
>> +1 - and there are employers who consider that highly valuable.
> 
> ... unless they have a job at sales to offer :-)

LOL, point. ;)

Jim

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On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 22:53:36 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

>>>> Congratulations, you just discovered another soft skill of yours:
>>>> Honesty and trustworthiness.
> 
> Heh, yeah - like nobody else claims to have those. :-P

You demonstrate it, though.  It's one thing to say you're honest and 
trustworthy, quite another to actually be it.  (I say that as someone who 
values both traits very highly, and who has worked for companies that 
value it as well)

>>> +1 - and there are employers who consider that highly valuable.
> 
> There are employers who DON'T highly v-

Sure.  Do you really want to work for someone who doesn't value those 
traits?

>> ... unless they have a job at sales to offer :-)
> 
> ...oh.

;)

Jim

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On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 22:56:37 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

>> Finding the right balance between selectivity and volume is tricky.
> 
> This.
> 
> I'm really not sure I'm hitting this quite right at the moment.

You're not a professional job seeker, so you're not going to hit it quite 
right.  Neither am I.

I'm too selective.  I find myself in the somewhat fortunate position of 
being able to be highly selective in who I even apply to much less 
interview with.

Jim

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On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 23:04:47 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

>>> ...right... so given that I don't know anybody, I should just give up
>>> now?
>>> Is that what you're saying?
>>
>> You know people here.
> 
> Sure. But I don't see any way that's going to help me get a job. 

It's a question of knowing people and networking.  Not just that, of 
course, but those things help.

> Only a
> tiny fraction of the people here live in the same country. 

That doesn't matter.  How many of the people you interact with work for 
companies with offices in the UK?  I'm contracting to a company now that 
has an office in Bracknell.

> And it's not
> like just because you work for company X, that means you can hire
> somebody.

That's certainly true.  The company I'm contracting to actually would 
like to hire me, but the CEO has to approve every new hire, so it takes 
time to do that. The engineering manager I'm working with said if it were 
up to him, he'd have hired me months ago.

He and a few others managed to get me a contract position with them 
through the end of the year, so I'm hoping that's a sign that they're 
trying to get a full-time permanent position.  In the meantime, I'm 
working with products that are relevant to being a valuable member of the 
team (this company eats their own dog food, so to speak), and they 
recognise the value of hiring someone who doesn't have a steep learning 
curve to learn the products.

>> You know coworkers that you work with - coworkers who are all in the
>> same boat as you are.
>>
>> That actually gives you a leg up in finding jobs in other companies
>> together.  When I was laid off from Novell (and my former coworkers at
>> Albertsons are learning this now as well as they've all just been made
>> redundant), those of us who were laid off looked out for each other.
>>
>> Take some time and talk with some of your soon-to-be former coworkers.
>> Ask them what they are looking for, tell them what you're looking for.
>> If you see something that looks like it might be a good fit for them,
>> tell them - they'll do the same for you.
>>
>> They are in a position to empathize with your situation because you
>> share it.  That's something that you all can benefit from.
> 
> That's a nice idea. But remember:
> 
> - I'm the one and only computer guy in a company full of lab guys.
> 
> - I live in a different city.
> 
> - I'm at a different life stage. (They're all married with children, for
> example.)
> 
> I've never really fitted in at work.

None of those things matter.  *None* of them.  In fact, not fitting in 
but still helping them might just show them what they missed out on.  
Help one of them, even in a small way, find a new job - and they'll 
realize they underestimated you.

Not that you should spend your time looking for jobs for them - but if 
you see something that's a good fit for someone you worked with, let them 
know about it.

Especially as they have a family, that you'd have taken the time out of 
your own needs and said "hey, Joe would be a good fit for this" - that's  
a kind of selflessness that can be useful.  Plus it's the right thing to 
do.

Jim

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On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 23:03:50 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:

> On 04/08/2012 10:23 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
> 
>> Recruiters generally won't be angry about having their time wasted by
>> unqualified candidates.  They get paid to properly identify the
>> qualified and unqualified candidates.  So being a bad fit isn't your
>> problem to solve.  It's their job to make that determination.
> 
> I was on the phone to one recruiter, and she kept asking me "Are you
> serious? Are you messing me around?" And after a few minutes, she told
> me "You're not for real. You're wasting my time." And then she just hung
> up on me. I've never had that before...

There are jerks in all lines of work.  Don't take one or two or 10 
recruiters being assholes to mean that none of them want to talk to 
people to see if they're qualified.

Maybe she was having a bad day.  Maybe her dog had just been hit by a 
car.  Who knows?

Don't give up.

Jim

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Am 05.08.2012 00:07, schrieb Jim Henderson:
> On Sat, 04 Aug 2012 22:53:36 +0100, Orchid Win7 v1 wrote:
>
>>>>> Congratulations, you just discovered another soft skill of yours:
>>>>> Honesty and trustworthiness.
...
>>>> +1 - and there are employers who consider that highly valuable.
>>
>> There are employers who DON'T highly v-
>
> Sure.  Do you really want to work for someone who doesn't value those
> traits?

Word!

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