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Apparently Halloween has its roots in Samhain, which was a Gaelic harvest
festival originally practiced mostly in Ireland and Scotland. It's strongly
associated with the celtic culture and its paganistic religious practices.
Finland has never been a celtic cultural area, not before nor after
Christianity, and there are very little to no celtic historical customs here.
Finland has its own pre-Christian rich mythologic and folkloric history and
customs. Of course modern Finnish culture is mostly filled with Christian
customs, none of which are celtic in origin (AFAIK).
Ten years ago Halloween was completely inexistent in Finland. We knew
about Halloween only from movies and TV series. It has never been a part
of Finnish culture, and it has always been a holiday of distant lands.
Something like five years ago somebody, I don't know who exactly, seemingly
wanted to change this and forcibly introduce Halloween to Finland. Suddenly
all kinds of Halloween parafernalia started appearing on shops in October.
I was like "WTF? Are they kidding?"
Since then every year such parafernalia appears on shops in October. And
apparently at least *some* people are buying it (and not only in the literal
sense of the word). What grinds my gears about this is that this is such a
blatant attempt at cashing in on a foreign custom, for no other reason
whatsoever, and some people are buying it. As if Finland didn't have its
own culture and its own holidays and festivals already.
--
- Warp
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On 10/29/2011 1:45 AM, Warp wrote:
> Apparently Halloween has its roots in Samhain, which was a Gaelic harvest
> festival originally practiced mostly in Ireland and Scotland. It's strongly
> associated with the celtic culture and its paganistic religious practices.
>
> Finland has never been a celtic cultural area, not before nor after
> Christianity, and there are very little to no celtic historical customs here.
> Finland has its own pre-Christian rich mythologic and folkloric history and
> customs. Of course modern Finnish culture is mostly filled with Christian
> customs, none of which are celtic in origin (AFAIK).
>
> Ten years ago Halloween was completely inexistent in Finland. We knew
> about Halloween only from movies and TV series. It has never been a part
> of Finnish culture, and it has always been a holiday of distant lands.
>
> Something like five years ago somebody, I don't know who exactly, seemingly
> wanted to change this and forcibly introduce Halloween to Finland. Suddenly
> all kinds of Halloween parafernalia started appearing on shops in October.
> I was like "WTF? Are they kidding?"
>
> Since then every year such parafernalia appears on shops in October. And
> apparently at least *some* people are buying it (and not only in the literal
> sense of the word). What grinds my gears about this is that this is such a
> blatant attempt at cashing in on a foreign custom, for no other reason
> whatsoever, and some people are buying it. As if Finland didn't have its
> own culture and its own holidays and festivals already.
>
What ever it may have *once been*, its no longer based on that at all.
Its more like Christmas, with candy, instead of presents, and celebrated
by nearly everyone. Mind, some wackos in the US "celebrate" it by
blaring religious propaganda over loud speakers against witchcraft (or
did a few years back in my city), and running "haunted houses" dedicated
to telling little kids all of the sinful things, including Halloween,
which will send them to hell, if they do them. And, its had paranoia,
lies, and "captive audience" BS shoveled over it so much that, in most
places, its rare to see people going door to door with their kids any
more, like they used to. But, yeah, its pretty much not a "holy day" for
anyone any more.
Interestingly, its changed over time. At one time it was only the adults
that wore costumes, and partied, then it changed to a kids festival, and
now.. its still mostly kids, but you see some adult stuff happening too
again. In any case, other than a few kooks, and a few neo-pagans and new
agers (same thing in this day), who don't follow a damn thing like what
they "imagine" the past was, or people did, or believed, its just
something for fun.
All said, Finland isn't going to be the first or last to "complain"
about the "commercialization", and promotion in new markets, of it.
There is a long standing assertion that certain "holidays" are nothing
more than marketing for people selling candy and card, etc. No doubt, if
Christianity hadn't gotten *started* in Europe, someone would be trying
to sell Santa Claus suits, Yule logs and greeting cards there now too.
For someone not "into" the "holiday", what ever much of it exists, it
seems to me to be a bit like complaining that Star Wars merchandise was
showing up on the shelves, one day out of the year, as the result of the
creation of a new "George Lucas day", or something.
Maybe a valid point, but.. a bit silly, and this is coming from someone
that lives in the most idiot friendly country on the planet, the good
old USA.
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On 10/29/2011 13:32, Patrick Elliott wrote:
> What ever it may have *once been*, its no longer based on that at all.
Well, except for the people for whom it actually *is* a religious holiday.
> more like Christmas, with candy, instead of presents, and celebrated by
> nearly everyone.
True, but just like Christians still go to church on christmas and easter
even if nobody else does, actual pagans do actually celebrate halloween.
Fortunately, they're rather more good natured about everyone dressing up as
witches. I suspect I'd get fired if I showed up to work near Christmas time
wearing a plastic crown of thorns and with fake blood spots on my palms.
> Mind, some wackos in the US "celebrate" it by blaring
> religious propaganda over loud speakers against witchcraft (or did a few
> years back in my city), and running "haunted houses" dedicated to telling
> little kids all of the sinful things, including Halloween, which will send
> them to hell, if they do them.
Those are the wackos that are interested enough in religion to recognise
it's still a religious holiday for various groups.
> yeah, its pretty much not a "holy day" for anyone any more.
You should disabuse yourself of that notion. Just because you don't get
invited doesn't mean they don't celebrate their religious holidays.
> In any case, other than a few kooks, and a few neo-pagans and new
> agers (same thing in this day), who don't follow a damn thing like what they
> "imagine" the past was, or people did, or believed, its just something for fun.
You should be aware that would be exceedingly rude in front of someone who
actually is pagan. However, pagans generally don't advertise the fact, so
you you won't actually know you're calling your boss a kook when you say
something like this in front of him.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
People tell me I am the counter-example.
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Am 30.10.2011 20:27, schrieb Darren New:
> I suspect I'd get fired if I showed up to work
> near Christmas time wearing a plastic crown of thorns and with fake
> blood spots on my palms.
I wouldn't blame them, if you're so out of touch with reality that
you're dressing in an Easter-time costume during Christmas season :-P
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On 10/29/2011 4:45 AM, Warp wrote:
>
> Something like five years ago somebody, I don't know who exactly, seemingly
> wanted to change this and forcibly introduce Halloween to Finland. Suddenly
> all kinds of Halloween parafernalia started appearing on shops in October.
> I was like "WTF? Are they kidding?"
>
> Since then every year such parafernalia appears on shops in October. And
> apparently at least *some* people are buying it (and not only in the literal
> sense of the word). What grinds my gears about this is that this is such a
> blatant attempt at cashing in on a foreign custom, for no other reason
> whatsoever, and some people are buying it. As if Finland didn't have its
> own culture and its own holidays and festivals already.
>
Be glad that it starts showing up in October. Here it starts showing up
in August. Then in mid September the Christmas stuff is out already
replacing the Halloween stuff.
I was in Luxembourg last year at this time and my family there was
stating that Halloween was something newer to them. It was only in the
last few years that people really started to go out trick-or-treating.
It is a holiday that makes money. It is easy to emphasize an aspect of
it and get people to part with their money. Candy & costumes.... and
lately large expensive decorations.
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On 10/30/2011 18:19, clipka wrote:
> Am 30.10.2011 20:27, schrieb Darren New:
>
>> I suspect I'd get fired if I showed up to work
>> near Christmas time wearing a plastic crown of thorns and with fake
>> blood spots on my palms.
>
> I wouldn't blame them, if you're so out of touch with reality that you're
> dressing in an Easter-time costume during Christmas season :-P
Bazinga. You have a point. :-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
People tell me I am the counter-example.
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On 10/29/2011 1:45, Warp wrote:
> Ten years ago Halloween was completely inexistent in Finland.
Doesn't Finland have a harvest celebration, tho? Like Thanksgiving and
Mid-Autumn Festival and stuff like that? That's really all Halloween is,
except some Christians went and dressed it up in evil icons because it was
the pagan version of the holiday.
If Finland does *not* have a harvest celebration, that'll make it the second
piece of evidence it would be too cold there for my tastes. ;-)
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
People tell me I am the counter-example.
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Th Dutch situation is a bit more complex (or perhaps not). There are two
track and treat traditions here (children sing and get candy, no matter
how badly they sing or what they sing. (some things would not get past
an American censor)). One where I live on Sept 11th and one in the south
on Jan 6th. It is unclear what Haloween has to offer additionally.
Perhaps in areas where neither tradition is present. I haven't seen
anything in the shops, but that might just be because I wasn't in any
shop over the last few months,
Carnival is the time to dress up, at least in the south, so no need to
import a foreign tradition either.
I think it is celebrated by some younger adults as an excuse to have a
party and dress up. I don't see it become very popular in the near
future here. If it does, shops will start selling at least 2 or 3 months
in advance, they do for all other festivities like Eastern Sinterklaas
(dec 6th) and Christmas (although some people get angry if Christmas
things are in shops before dec 6th)
On 30-10-2011 20:27, Darren New wrote:
>> yeah, its pretty much not a "holy day" for anyone any more.
>
> You should disabuse yourself of that notion. Just because you don't get
> invited doesn't mean they don't celebrate their religious holidays.
I try to observe towel day and at least pay some attention to talk like
a pirate day, but they do not seem very popular. Probably because of no
merchandising push.
--
Thanks to Darren New, the over the counter example.
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On 31-10-2011 20:37, Darren New wrote:
> On 10/29/2011 1:45, Warp wrote:
>> Ten years ago Halloween was completely inexistent in Finland.
>
> Doesn't Finland have a harvest celebration, tho? Like Thanksgiving and
> Mid-Autumn Festival and stuff like that? That's really all Halloween is,
> except some Christians went and dressed it up in evil icons because it
> was the pagan version of the holiday.
>
> If Finland does *not* have a harvest celebration, that'll make it the
> second piece of evidence it would be too cold there for my tastes. ;-)
we don't have one either and I am pretty sure many countries on the
equator won't have one too.
--
Darren New. he just counts the examples.
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Darren New <dne### [at] san rrcom> wrote:
> On 10/29/2011 1:45, Warp wrote:
> > Ten years ago Halloween was completely inexistent in Finland.
> Doesn't Finland have a harvest celebration, tho? Like Thanksgiving and
> Mid-Autumn Festival and stuff like that? That's really all Halloween is,
> except some Christians went and dressed it up in evil icons because it was
> the pagan version of the holiday.
> If Finland does *not* have a harvest celebration, that'll make it the second
> piece of evidence it would be too cold there for my tastes. ;-)
Curiously Finland indeed does not have any end-of-harvest celebration
tradition, even though Finnish agricultural history goes way back to the
medieval ages and beyond.
The major non-Christian celebration of pagan origins still celebrated
in Finland (which even has an official holiday status) is the midsummer
festival, with its own rich traditions (the most visible one of them being
the burning of a bonfire). There have been, of course, other celebrations
in the past, but most of them have been either lost or assimilated into
Christian festivities, Christmas and Easter being the two most prominent
ones. (AFAIK, like in most of the rest or Europe, there were some
traditions and festivities related to the winter solstice, all of which
got either lost or assimilated into Christmas traditions.)
The tradition that mostly resembles Halloween in Finland happens in
Easter, especially in some parts of Finland. AFAIK this is a combination
of two distinct traditions, one of them of Christian and the other of
pagan origin (but neither directly related to Easter):
In some parts of Finland (especially in the East) it was traditional at
Easter time to bless homes by waving catkins at them (seemingly originally
representing palm tree branches), especially by children. The owner of the
home would then give treats to them as a sign of gratitude.
In other parts of Finland Easter time was, for some reason, associated
with witches (I think this is a more international phenomenon than Finland
only).
At some point these two traditions got merged, so we have children dressing
as witches (in some parts boys would dress as their cats) and going from
home to home blessing them with the catkins, the homeowners giving them
treats. It is customary for the children to ask permission first. This
largely resembles the Halloween tradition (but has completely different
origins).
--
- Warp
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