On 10/16/2011 9:41, Warp wrote:
>    England, Britain, United Kingdom... It's all so confusing...

That was extremely informative in a dense and amusing way. Thanks!

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   How come I never get only one kudo?

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On 10/16/2011 3:33 PM, Darren New wrote:
> On 10/16/2011 6:30, Warp wrote:
>> while something like 95% of people in the US is Christian.
>
> I think *that* number is rather high, given that some 15% are atheists
> and some 5% are Jewish, Muslim, etc. (And Mormons get counted as
> Christians.)
>
> Actually, there ya go:
>
> http://religions.pewforum.org/reports
>
> Pew Forums have actually been around a long time and are fairly
> respected as a source of statistics, too.
>
Mind, its probably inaccurate, in that its practically a national past 
time in the US to deny being agnostic, or even atheist, because you 
don't want he neighbors to find out, or you are doing so for the 
"benefit of others". There are even some priests that have admitted as 
much that the only reason they still have a job is because they think 
religion is "useful" to their parishioners, so are afraid of the 
consequence of admitting they don't believe, and quitting the job.

If even mentioning that you might, maybe, be one, wouldn't make you 
instantly unelectable as even a dog catcher here, and there wasn't a 
whole bloody movement dedicated to lying about them, I would bet the 
number of atheists, and agnostics, was *well* over 15%, but, since I 
have no idea how many it really would be, I think I will stay out of the 
pot, when it comes to exact numbers. It might be depressingly less than 
I would like, or so bloody large that no one would believe the results.

I do know that a *lot* of the "Christians" here are, I suppose, what you 
might call "Atheist Christian", they are pretty sure the Bible is mostly 
bull, that Jesus wasn't divine, and that god isn't out there, probably, 
but they still "believe in" the idea that Jesus came up with some 
amazingly great way of thinking about the world, and acting towards 
others, that no one else ever did. They are also, usually, completely 
clueless as to how factually wrong that is.

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> On 10/16/2011 6:30, Warp wrote:
> > while something like 95% of people in the US is Christian.

> I think *that* number is rather high, given that some 15% are atheists and 
> some 5% are Jewish, Muslim, etc. (And Mormons get counted as Christians.)

> Actually, there ya go:

> http://religions.pewforum.org/reports

> Pew Forums have actually been around a long time and are fairly respected as 
> a source of statistics, too.

  What? You don't consider Fox News to be a reliable source of information?-)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qzVxHF8T0Hk

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On 16/10/2011 11:29 PM, Darren New wrote:

> The thing that cracks me up about all that is that the person he was
> running against *actually* wasn't born in the USA.

My lolrus!

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On 17/10/2011 03:48 AM, Patrick Elliott wrote:

> Mind, its probably inaccurate, in that its practically a national past
> time in the US to deny being agnostic, or even atheist, because you
> don't want he neighbors to find out

Is it true that if people find out you don't believe in God, you will 
*actually* be brutally murdered in your sleep? Or is that an exaggeration?

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On 10/15/2011 10:13 AM, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

> What I /have/ noticed about the USA is that they tend to assert that
> their way of life is the only /correct/ one. Like, the way they live is
> the best way, and the rest of the world just hasn't learned how to be as
> awesome as them yet. Whereas in Europe, each country has roughly similar
> laws and so forth, but there are several areas of fairly drastic
> difference. And then there's culture and so forth. And overall, nobody
> seems to be sitting there saying "we're the best in Europe, and we pitty
> all those other countries who haven't learned how to be like us yet".

Yep. There are definitely people who think that way. If a new concept 
comes around, and we haven't done that in the past, and it involves 
making life better for people, it immediately gets called Socialism 
and/or Communism. The ones you see are the most vocal, often those most 
vocal are also the most insane.

Of course, I take issue with the healthcare bill we passed as it stands, 
now. Essentially, it's written so that everyone *must* get health 
insurance, or be fined. It seems to benefit the insurance companies more 
than it does the people.

As if GB has never said that they are superior? ;)

> Also: The USA is huge. I can't help feeling that somewhere within it,
> there must be some intelligent people. And those people must feel really
> embarrassed that they live in the same country as the morons who make
> America look so bad to the rest of the world with depressing frequency...

I've become numb to it. It doesn't faze me anymore, really. I just let 
them demonstrate beyond all doubt their ignorance ;)

> (I remember when the London riots where happening. And then they started
> happening all over the country. I felt ashemed to be British that day.)
>


-- 
~Mike

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>> What I /have/ noticed about the USA is that they tend to assert that
>> their way of life is the only /correct/ one.
>
> Yep. There are definitely people who think that way.

There's probably people like that everywhere. It's just that, for 
whatever reason, this seems to be more prominent in the USA.

[I deliberately use the term "USA" rather than "America" because 
strictly speaking the latter is two entire continents comprising 
multiple countries... I believe the Arrogant Worms make a lengthy song 
about this exact matter...]

> If a new concept
> comes around, and we haven't done that in the past, and it involves
> making life better for people, it immediately gets called Socialism
> and/or Communism.

Yeah. Because Communism is completely evil, right? RIGHT??

Um... I still haven't figured out *why* it's evil, but apparently it is.

> The ones you see are the most vocal, often those most
> vocal are also the most insane.

You *do* seem to have the most insane people. Just saying... ;-)

> Of course, I take issue with the healthcare bill we passed as it stands,
> now. Essentially, it's written so that everyone *must* get health
> insurance, or be fined. It seems to benefit the insurance companies more
> than it does the people.

That does sound kind of defective, actually.

Of course, saying that a specific formulation of something is suboptimal 
is different than saying that anyone who's poor should just be left to 
die, and to do otherwise is to oppose God's will...

> As if GB has never said that they are superior? ;)

At some time, we actually *did* rule half the world. For real. :-P

But yeah, these days, aside from a few people who are like "all them 
niggers should **** off back to their own country", most people in 
Britain don't walk around thinking they're better than the rest of the 
world, or even just the rest of Europe.

>> Also: The USA is huge. I can't help feeling that somewhere within it,
>> there must be some intelligent people. And those people must feel really
>> embarrassed that they live in the same country as the morons who make
>> America look so bad to the rest of the world with depressing frequency...
>
> I've become numb to it. It doesn't faze me anymore, really. I just let
> them demonstrate beyond all doubt their ignorance ;)

You realise that a lot of people think your entire country is filled 
with morons and crazy people, right?

I mean, damn, I have no idea what people who aren't British think about 
Britain - probably that we all eat fish & chips and drink beer all day 
or something - but AFAIK, they don't think we're crazy. At least, I hope 
not. o_O

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On 10/17/2011 7:14, Invisible wrote:
> Um... I still haven't figured out *why* it's evil, but apparently it is.

When I was growing up, communism and fascism and socialism were economic 
policies. Now they're forms of government. At least if you believe a 
dictionary from the '60s and a dictionary from the 2000's.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   How come I never get only one kudo?

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On 10/17/2011 7:03 AM, Mike Raiford wrote:
> On 10/15/2011 10:13 AM, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>
>> What I /have/ noticed about the USA is that they tend to assert that
>> their way of life is the only /correct/ one. Like, the way they live is
>> the best way, and the rest of the world just hasn't learned how to be as
>> awesome as them yet. Whereas in Europe, each country has roughly similar
>> laws and so forth, but there are several areas of fairly drastic
>> difference. And then there's culture and so forth. And overall, nobody
>> seems to be sitting there saying "we're the best in Europe, and we pitty
>> all those other countries who haven't learned how to be like us yet".
>
> Yep. There are definitely people who think that way. If a new concept
> comes around, and we haven't done that in the past, and it involves
> making life better for people, it immediately gets called Socialism
> and/or Communism. The ones you see are the most vocal, often those most
> vocal are also the most insane.
>
> Of course, I take issue with the healthcare bill we passed as it stands,
> now. Essentially, it's written so that everyone *must* get health
> insurance, or be fined. It seems to benefit the insurance companies more
> than it does the people.
>
> As if GB has never said that they are superior? ;)
>
Since the original intent had been to set up a separate system to get 
it, so there was competition, but without that.. Still, the principle 
idea of making it so *everyone* has to buy into some isn't to help the 
insurance companies, so much as it is to stop the government having to 
pay out money to help people that didn't buy any, and maybe get them to 
see a doctor "before" it costs 50 times as much to treat them. But, 
yeah, so long as the insurance industry is the "only" source, and they 
can all sit around, together, at a table and decide how to screw 
everyone the next year, it only fixes half the problem.

Its telling though that the other side doesn't even think we need to fix 
*any* problem, except to maybe just not use government money at all, 
ever, for anyone, while still letting the insurance industry run rampant 
over the populous.

Recent law they are trying to pass - Protection for Catholic hospitals, 
which are sadly a large percentage of them, to not merely deny help to 
women on the verge of death, due to pregnancy complications, but to also 
"deny them the right to be transferred to some place where they can be 
treated". The theory being that, somehow, those women are, I don't know 
what the fuck, maybe bribing the Catholic doctors to "fake" illness, or 
causing it themselves, in some proxy to get shipped to another hospital, 
to receive abortions? I mean WTF? But, apparently, this is *way* more 
important than taking jobs seriously, or creating legislation about 
*anything* other than bullshit like this.

>> Also: The USA is huge. I can't help feeling that somewhere within it,
>> there must be some intelligent people. And those people must feel really
>> embarrassed that they live in the same country as the morons who make
>> America look so bad to the rest of the world with depressing frequency...
>
> I've become numb to it. It doesn't faze me anymore, really. I just let
> them demonstrate beyond all doubt their ignorance ;)
>
Unfortunately, one of the things such nutcases count on is the rest of 
us becoming "numb to it" and not bloody doing a damn thing about it. 
Scares the shit out of them when people do silly things like you know, 
vote, or march. That being why they are trying damn hard, where ever 
they can, to make both as hard as bloody possible for those of us that 
might actually have gotten, finally, pissed off enough to do either.

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On 10/17/2011 1:20 AM, Invisible wrote:
> On 17/10/2011 03:48 AM, Patrick Elliott wrote:
>
>> Mind, its probably inaccurate, in that its practically a national past
>> time in the US to deny being agnostic, or even atheist, because you
>> don't want he neighbors to find out
>
> Is it true that if people find out you don't believe in God, you will
> *actually* be brutally murdered in your sleep? Or is that an exaggeration?
Depends, which state did you hear it happening in?

Mind, that is an exaggeration of the truth, but its not that damn 
dissimilar to the reality in some places.

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