>> But no... at one point, the guy just snaps and starts behaving in a
>> completely illogical manner.
>
> I think the point of ep3 was that with all the stress Annikin was under,
> his reaction was perfectly rational and logical.

It's clear Anakin was being manipulated. It's clear the Jedi Council 
were less than supportive towards him, and he deeply resented it. It's 
clear he was deeply conflicted. And it's also clear that despite 
everything, he still felt loyal to the Jedi.

Until that one scene where suddenly, for no apparent reason, he just 
switches sides and never looks back. It's as if the writers ran out of 
time to write the story properly or something...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 <voi### [at] devnull> wrote:
> I doubt that Quigon could have known that he was a good diplomat 45 
> seconds after having met him. Even if he really was...

  Quigon is a jedi.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 22:05:04 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> But no... at one point, the guy just snaps and starts behaving in a
>>> completely illogical manner.
>>
>> I think the point of ep3 was that with all the stress Annikin was
>> under, his reaction was perfectly rational and logical.
> 
> It's clear Anakin was being manipulated. It's clear the Jedi Council
> were less than supportive towards him, and he deeply resented it. It's
> clear he was deeply conflicted. And it's also clear that despite
> everything, he still felt loyal to the Jedi.

He was manipulated by both sides.

> Until that one scene where suddenly, for no apparent reason, he just
> switches sides and never looks back. It's as if the writers ran out of
> time to write the story properly or something...

Well, no, he eventually reached a point where, as you say, "something 
snapped" - and the pressure applied because of the death of his mother 
and his perception that Obi-Wan was betraying him pushed him over the 
edge.

In real life, people can take only so much before they break.  Annikin 
reached his breaking point, and the push took him more towards the 'dark 
side' than not - as he was manipulated through his emotions and his 
emotions ultimately took over.

Luke made a similar journey, but proved to be stronger than his father, 
and chose not to go to the dark side.

Jim

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On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 16:58:25 -0400, Warp wrote:

> Mike Raiford <"m[raiford]!at"@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On 9/27/2011 3:13 AM, Invisible wrote:
> 
>> > The later films are much worse.
>> >
>> >
>> I dunno, I sort of liked Ep. 3 ...
> 
>   The problem with that, and in fact the entire trilogy, is that there
>   are
> some good ideas underneath, but for some strange reason the writing was
> quite subpar, which more or less destroyed all the good ideas. With
> better writing it could have been much better.

I think a big part of the prequel trilogy was not so much the writing 
(though clearly it could have been better, as we've seen the lead actors 
play roles that they did quite well in, but in the prequels the acting 
was pretty flat) was that Lucas cast individual roles.  One of the 
reasons the older trilogy holds up so well is because the actors actually 
acted well as an ensemble (indeed, Lucas said he cast those films as an 
ensemble rather than as individual roles).

>   As an example, episode 3 does not really convey very well *why* Anakin
> chose the dark side. There are bits and pieces here and there, but it
> just gives a feeling that he switched sides for no good reason at all,
> and it makes no sense. A much better script could have made that plot
> point much more evident, logical and dramatic.

I think it could've been done better, sure - but I do think that the 
story did convey Annikin's reasons for switching pretty well.  He was 
raised as a slave, and his mother was his world.  Then he was yanked out 
of that life, his mother was captured and died, and then he tried to keep 
his relationship with Padme secret, felt betrayed by the Jedi in general 
and Obi-Wan in particular, and just kept getting pushed further and 
further until he broke.

Jim

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Le 2011/09/27 18:31, Jim Henderson a écrit :
> On Tue, 27 Sep 2011 22:05:04 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>
>>>> But no... at one point, the guy just snaps and starts behaving in a
>>>> completely illogical manner.
>>>
>>> I think the point of ep3 was that with all the stress Annikin was
>>> under, his reaction was perfectly rational and logical.
>>
>> It's clear Anakin was being manipulated. It's clear the Jedi Council
>> were less than supportive towards him, and he deeply resented it. It's
>> clear he was deeply conflicted. And it's also clear that despite
>> everything, he still felt loyal to the Jedi.
>
> He was manipulated by both sides.
>
>> Until that one scene where suddenly, for no apparent reason, he just
>> switches sides and never looks back. It's as if the writers ran out of
>> time to write the story properly or something...
>
> Well, no, he eventually reached a point where, as you say, "something
> snapped" - and the pressure applied because of the death of his mother
> and his perception that Obi-Wan was betraying him pushed him over the
> edge.
>
> In real life, people can take only so much before they break.  Annikin
> reached his breaking point, and the push took him more towards the 'dark
> side' than not - as he was manipulated through his emotions and his
> emotions ultimately took over.
>
> Luke made a similar journey, but proved to be stronger than his father,
> and chose not to go to the dark side.
>
> Jim

Star War was originaly made as a 3 parts saga made of 3 
periods/trilogies. Rise of the Empire, The rebelion, The new Republic.

We are yet to get episods 7, 8 and 9 that where originaly planed. The 
scripts where writen a long time ago...
Aparently, Luke will go totaly to the dark side, but will manage to, 
with some great help from Leila, come back to the bright side and 
ultimately manage to master both sides in an harmonious way.

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>>    As an example, episode 3 does not really convey very well *why* Anakin
>> chose the dark side.
>
> I think it could've been done better, sure - but I do think that the
> story did convey Annikin's reasons for switching pretty well.

This is the Metacritic effect I spoke of in another thread... Humans are 
so utterly subjective, man!

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Alain escreveu:
> Star War was originaly made as a 3 parts saga made of 3 
> periods/trilogies. Rise of the Empire, The rebelion, The new Republic.

That's what George Lucas likes to say after it became a success.  But in 
reality, it was just a nod to old scifi serialized movies from the 30's, 
40's, not unlike Indiana Jones too.  It starts in the 3rd episode just 
to give that mood hangups of old serials, there was nothing planned for 
future or past stories.  It was a huge financial success and they 
hurried to imagine sequences in the following years and even much more 
time to think of possible prequels.

-- 
a game sig: http://tinyurl.com/d3rxz9

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On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 14:26:49 -0400, Alain wrote:

> Star War was originaly made as a 3 parts saga made of 3
> periods/trilogies. Rise of the Empire, The rebelion, The new Republic.

Yep, I remember that from when I was a kid.  I used to dream about 
watching all 9 films back-to-back.

> We are yet to get episods 7, 8 and 9 that where originaly planed. The
> scripts where writen a long time ago... Aparently, Luke will go totaly
> to the dark side, but will manage to, with some great help from Leila,
> come back to the bright side and ultimately manage to master both sides
> in an harmonious way.

It doesn't sound like we'll get to hear that story, though.

Jim

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On Wed, 28 Sep 2011 21:33:11 +0100, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>>    As an example, episode 3 does not really convey very well *why*
>>>    Anakin
>>> chose the dark side.
>>
>> I think it could've been done better, sure - but I do think that the
>> story did convey Annikin's reasons for switching pretty well.
> 
> This is the Metacritic effect I spoke of in another thread... Humans are
> so utterly subjective, man!

Absolutely, man! ;)

Jim

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On 9/28/2011 4:57 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> We are yet to get episods 7, 8 and 9 that where originaly planed. The
>> scripts where writen a long time ago... Aparently, Luke will go totaly
>> to the dark side, but will manage to, with some great help from Leila,
>> come back to the bright side and ultimately manage to master both sides
>> in an harmonious way.
>
> It doesn't sound like we'll get to hear that story, though.
>
> Jim

Odd. I had heard that it was Lea that went off kilter. Think that was 
taken out of some books or other though, and its uncertain how/if any of 
those have any relationship to anything like canon. Still, *some* parts 
of the story line, sort of, get played out in the games that where made 
as well. I supposed that 7, 8 and 9 might be "in between" the end of 6 
and the first game, or something, but... Who knows.

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