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2 Aug 2024 08:12:50 EDT (-0400)
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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Is this the end of the world as we know it?
Date: 6 Oct 2011 18:54:34
Message: <4e8e31aa$1@news.povray.org>
On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 23:32:15 +0100, Stephen wrote:

> On 06/10/2011 11:23 PM, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 19:56:26 +0100, Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> On 06/10/2011 7:48 PM, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>>> There is. And when the BIOS runs, numlock is on. Once the Linux
>>>> kernel finishes loading, it turns off. (And if you press the key to
>>>> turn it back on, it stays on until you log into something...)
>>>
>>> Another reason to give Linux a miss.
>>
>> <shrug>   Works just fine for 99% of the users I've talked to.  And
>> I've talked to a lot of Linux users. :)
>>
> Ye’r not biased by any chance?

Oh, yes, I'm biased, and I don't try to hide it. :)

> Actually I can’t be bothered to learn another OS and like Andrew I’ve
> got lots of s/ware that works on Windoze.

Whereas I can't be bothered to use Windows for the vast majority of what 
I use a computer for these days, and I don't have a collection of Windows 
software holding me back. <gd&rvvvf>

But my point above was that if you're citing "numlock doesn't behave the 
way I'm used to" as "another reason to give Linux a miss", it's not 
really that great of a reason. ;)

Jim


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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Is this the end of the world as we know it?
Date: 6 Oct 2011 19:38:22
Message: <4e8e3bee$1@news.povray.org>
On 10/6/2011 15:23, Jim Henderson wrote:
> <shrug>   Works just fine for 99% of the users I've talked to.

Other than audio and a couple other things, where I have a text file on the 
desktop with the command lines to fix the f'ing problem the three or four 
times a week it crops up.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   How come I never get only one kudo?


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Is this the end of the world as we know it?
Date: 6 Oct 2011 19:55:25
Message: <4e8e3fed$1@news.povray.org>
On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 16:38:21 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> On 10/6/2011 15:23, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> <shrug>   Works just fine for 99% of the users I've talked to.
> 
> Other than audio and a couple other things, where I have a text file on
> the desktop with the command lines to fix the f'ing problem the three or
> four times a week it crops up.

Which problem, numlock for you too?

I've got openSUSE or SLE installed on 4 systems here and never have had a 
problem with the numlock, and I can't recall ever seeing anyone ask a 
question about it on the openSUSE forums.

Jim


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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Is this the end of the world as we know it?
Date: 6 Oct 2011 19:58:37
Message: <4e8e40ad$1@news.povray.org>
On 10/6/2011 16:55, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 16:38:21 -0700, Darren New wrote:
>
>> On 10/6/2011 15:23, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> <shrug>    Works just fine for 99% of the users I've talked to.
>>
>> Other than audio and a couple other things, where I have a text file on
>> the desktop with the command lines to fix the f'ing problem the three or
>> four times a week it crops up.
>
> Which problem, numlock for you too?

No. Audio, and a few other things I probably shouldn't talk about. Along 
with random weird-ass flakiness in the alert bar thing, randomly moving 
things around, truncating them, duplicating them, etc. (The thing by default 
in the top-right corner of Ubuntu, for example, with the date and the login 
and the battery info, which just arbitrarily decides not to work on 
occasion. Almost as fucked as Windows Sidebar. :-)

Randomly deciding which audio device it's going to use is rather annoying 
when I'm trying to dial into a conference and I have to power-cycle the 
machine to get it to recognize USB ports again.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   How come I never get only one kudo?


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Is this the end of the world as we know it?
Date: 6 Oct 2011 20:04:33
Message: <4e8e4211@news.povray.org>
On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 16:58:36 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> On 10/6/2011 16:55, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 16:38:21 -0700, Darren New wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/6/2011 15:23, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>>> <shrug>    Works just fine for 99% of the users I've talked to.
>>>
>>> Other than audio and a couple other things, where I have a text file
>>> on the desktop with the command lines to fix the f'ing problem the
>>> three or four times a week it crops up.
>>
>> Which problem, numlock for you too?
> 
> No. Audio, and a few other things I probably shouldn't talk about. Along
> with random weird-ass flakiness in the alert bar thing, randomly moving
> things around, truncating them, duplicating them, etc. (The thing by
> default in the top-right corner of Ubuntu, for example, with the date
> and the login and the battery info, which just arbitrarily decides not
> to work on occasion. Almost as fucked as Windows Sidebar. :-)
> 
> Randomly deciding which audio device it's going to use is rather
> annoying when I'm trying to dial into a conference and I have to
> power-cycle the machine to get it to recognize USB ports again.

If it's openSUSE, we've got a guy who's really good with audio issues who 
probably can work out what the issue is.

Though given that you said Ubuntu, I'm guessing it's not openSUSE....

Some people have success IIRC by removing pulseaudio.  That seems to 
cause more issues than it resolves.

Jim


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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Is this the end of the world as we know it?
Date: 6 Oct 2011 21:48:30
Message: <4e8e5a6e$1@news.povray.org>
On 10/6/2011 17:04, Jim Henderson wrote:
> Though given that you said Ubuntu, I'm guessing it's not openSUSE....

Technically, it's goobuntu.  Everything at google starts with a G. It's 
actually somewhat disturbing.

> Some people have success IIRC by removing pulseaudio.  That seems to
> cause more issues than it resolves.

Meh. I'll just reset it whenever it happens, and bitch about it.  I should 
probably track down the command line options it would take to make it even 
more automated than it is, but like I have bunches of free time these days...

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   How come I never get only one kudo?


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Is this the end of the world as we know it?
Date: 7 Oct 2011 00:13:04
Message: <4e8e7c50@news.povray.org>
On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 18:48:29 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> On 10/6/2011 17:04, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Though given that you said Ubuntu, I'm guessing it's not openSUSE....
> 
> Technically, it's goobuntu.  Everything at google starts with a G. It's
> actually somewhat disturbing.

Ah, right, I forgot that you recently changed jobs. :)

You don't know anything about ChromeOS, do you?  I'm trying to play with 
it on a Dell laptop (using the hexxeh builds) and looking for some 
troubleshooting.  It's locked down to a point of not really being able to 
"fix" it, at least not when I boot from the flash drive.

Just playing with it mostly to see if I can get the Netflix streaming 
plugin to actually work, since it's supposed to with ChromeOS but not 
with just Chrome on Linux (which seems silly, but I don't blame Google 
for that, I blame MPAA and IFPI for that restriction).

>> Some people have success IIRC by removing pulseaudio.  That seems to
>> cause more issues than it resolves.
> 
> Meh. I'll just reset it whenever it happens, and bitch about it.  I
> should probably track down the command line options it would take to
> make it even more automated than it is, but like I have bunches of free
> time these days...

LOL, as long as you realize that there are loads of people for whom it's 
not a problem. :)

Jim


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From: Darren New
Subject: Re: Is this the end of the world as we know it?
Date: 7 Oct 2011 00:35:09
Message: <4e8e817d$1@news.povray.org>
On 10/6/2011 21:13, Jim Henderson wrote:
> You don't know anything about ChromeOS, do you?

Only what I've heard people talking about at lunch. Nothing that would help 
any more than my complaining about Linux does. ;-)

> LOL, as long as you realize that there are loads of people for whom it's
> not a problem. :)

I think of all the areas, "audio" and "usability" are recognized as being 
low on the list for Linux. And by "usability", I mean things like "give the 
focus to the window I just opened, instead of some random window on some 
other workspace" and "when I plug in a USB audio device, yeah, I probably 
want to use that one without launching an xterm to select it. Oh, and by the 
way, the volume control slider? Probably a good idea to set the volume of 
the audio device to the setting of the volume control slider without me 
having to go and manually slide it up and down a bit to get it to apply to 
the newly selected audio device."   Just dumb crap like that that isn't 
worth fixing if nobody is paying you to do so.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   How come I never get only one kudo?


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From: Jim Henderson
Subject: Re: Is this the end of the world as we know it?
Date: 7 Oct 2011 00:57:50
Message: <4e8e86ce@news.povray.org>
On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 21:35:07 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> On 10/6/2011 21:13, Jim Henderson wrote:
>> You don't know anything about ChromeOS, do you?
> 
> Only what I've heard people talking about at lunch. Nothing that would
> help any more than my complaining about Linux does. ;-)

:)

>> LOL, as long as you realize that there are loads of people for whom
>> it's not a problem. :)
> 
> I think of all the areas, "audio" and "usability" are recognized as
> being low on the list for Linux. And by "usability", I mean things like
> "give the focus to the window I just opened, instead of some random
> window on some other workspace" and "when I plug in a USB audio device,
> yeah, I probably want to use that one without launching an xterm to
> select it. Oh, and by the way, the volume control slider? Probably a
> good idea to set the volume of the audio device to the setting of the
> volume control slider without me having to go and manually slide it up
> and down a bit to get it to apply to the newly selected audio device."  
> Just dumb crap like that that isn't worth fixing if nobody is paying you
> to do so.

Audio certainly is an area that's recognised as being problematic.

For your usability comments:

1.  Never had a problem with focus going someplace I didn't expect (or if 
I have, it's been a long time).  I do have windows set to auto-raise on 
my system, which may make a difference.

2.  The rest is audio related, which really falls under what I said above.

Jim


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From: Invisible
Subject: Re: Is this the end of the world as we know it?
Date: 7 Oct 2011 04:08:20
Message: <4e8eb374$1@news.povray.org>
>>> Mine never turns off on its own.  Just switched between several VTs and
>>> my X session, the state didn't change at all.
>>
>> OK, well I guess it varies by distro then. This was, IIRC, Debian
>> "potato".
>
> Possible.  At the very least, there are ways to configure it to not do
> what you're seeing, but not knowing Debian, I couldn't tell you how on
> that distribution.

Quite. As I recall, stopping the shell doing this involved editing 
~/.bashrc and setting an environment variable or something like that.

>>> "in the shell" - do you mean on a VT?  Or is it changing when you open
>>> a term window in X?
>>
>> I mean in the text-mode screen that appears before you tell X Windows to
>> start up. (I didn't have it configured to run at startup.)
>
> That's a "virtual terminal" or VT.  aka the "Console".

Oh, right. I thought that refers only to when you run an X application 
that emulates a terminal in a window.


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