>> Ever noticed that the keyboard has a calculator side pad?
>
> Not on my laptop.

My new laptop does though. ;-)

> And compared to a calculator, the numeric keypad's
> numbers are reversed (1-3 at the bottom rather than at the top).

 From what I've seen, both layouts are equally common.

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On 06/10/2011 02:10 AM, Darren New wrote:
> On 10/5/2011 9:42, andrel wrote:
>> Ever noticed that the keyboard has a calculator side pad?
>
> Back when spreadsheets were the killer app, people were annoyed that the
> number keys and the arrow keys were the same keys. So now we have two
> sets of number keys *and* two sets of arrow keys.

I'm still trying to figure out how to make it permanently impossible to 
ever turn numlock off under any circumstances. Every single ****ing time 
I use Linux, I seem to have to turn numlock back on every 20 seconds. I 
DO NOT EVER WANT IT TO TURN OFF!!! >_<

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>> Well, at least you don't have to worry about it lagging out because the
>> scheduled antivirus scan just kicked in... Even so, there's something
>> deeply broken about purchasing a powerful computational device and then
>> purchasing another one to do the actual math for you.
>
> Sometimes a simpler tool is a better tool. :)

Dude, that's like saying that sometimes a 1/4 lb planishing hammer is 
better than a 6 lb sledgehammer!

Oh, wait...

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On 10/6/2011 1:02, Invisible wrote:
>  From what I've seen, both layouts are equally common.

AT&T actually studied about 20 or 25 different keyboard layouts, including 
2x5, circular, all four rectangles, etc, to see how fast people could dial 
each one.  You got the one that won out.

I don't know if similar studies were ever done for calculators, but I'd 
expect not.  I suspect it's more that they had the low numbers lower on the 
keyboard for consistency with older mechanical calculators where the low 
numbers had to be physically farther from the display.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   How come I never get only one kudo?

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Le 2011/10/05 14:18, Jim Henderson a écrit :
> On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 18:42:47 +0200, andrel wrote:
>
>> On 5-10-2011 17:50, Jim Henderson wrote:
>>> On Wed, 05 Oct 2011 16:03:07 +0100, Invisible wrote:
>>>
>>>>>>> To be fair, if there were a few more items, you'd probably need to
>>>>>>> write it down just to keep track of it all. But two pencil
>>>>>>> sharpeners which are £1.95 each shouldn't trouble anybody...
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I blame the education system. I don’t know what for but something is
>>>>>> to blame.
>>>>>
>>>>> Technology.  Why should one have to figure out how to do sums when
>>>>> everyone has a phone with a calculator built into it?
>>>>
>>>> Heh. My phone has a calculator, but it'll take you five minutes to
>>>> figure out which submenu it's burried under. And then to remember
>>>> which key you have to hold for 3 seconds to make the various
>>>> mathematical operators appear...
>>>>
>>>> (Then again, it'll take you 20 seconds just to cancel out of the
>>>> random submenu that the phone has opened in your pocket for no defined
>>>> reason.)
>>>
>>> Well, that's why I put a shortcut on the screen for it. :)
>>>
>>>> It still amuses me when I see people in the lab sitting in front of a
>>>> PC with a 3 GHz dual-core 64-bit processor, and using a desktop
>>>> calculator to work out what numbers to key into the computer. ;-)
>>>
>>> It's all about familiarity.  They probably are much faster on a
>>> calculator keypad. :)
>>
>> Ever noticed that the keyboard has a calculator side pad?
>
> Not on my laptop.  And compared to a calculator, the numeric keypad's
> numbers are reversed (1-3 at the bottom rather than at the top).
>
>> That most
>> calculators use this and that you can copy paste answers. Indeed they
>> didn't.
>
> Sure, there are benefits.  I'd have to be stupid not to know *that*.
>
> Jim

I've never ever seen any calculator with the 1 2 3 keys at the top. 
Phones, yes, always, calculators, never.

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On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 09:03:53 +0100, Invisible wrote:

> On 06/10/2011 02:10 AM, Darren New wrote:
>> On 10/5/2011 9:42, andrel wrote:
>>> Ever noticed that the keyboard has a calculator side pad?
>>
>> Back when spreadsheets were the killer app, people were annoyed that
>> the number keys and the arrow keys were the same keys. So now we have
>> two sets of number keys *and* two sets of arrow keys.
> 
> I'm still trying to figure out how to make it permanently impossible to
> ever turn numlock off under any circumstances. Every single ****ing time
> I use Linux, I seem to have to turn numlock back on every 20 seconds. I
> DO NOT EVER WANT IT TO TURN OFF!!! >_<

It never changes state here for me automatically.

Jim

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On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 09:02:33 +0100, Invisible wrote:

>>> Ever noticed that the keyboard has a calculator side pad?
>>
>> Not on my laptop.
> 
> My new laptop does though. ;-)

I've seen a few laptops that have them, but the vast majority (especially 
if you have a 'standard' (as opposed to 'wide') screen.

>> And compared to a calculator, the numeric keypad's numbers are reversed
>> (1-3 at the bottom rather than at the top).
> 
>  From what I've seen, both layouts are equally common.

Not on a computer - at least not that I've ever seen.  On a calculator, 
that may be true - I've only got 2 or 3 actual calculators here.

But I did learn to do 10-key on a cash register, and the keys there (and 
on touch-tone phones and most calculators) are the other way round.

Jim

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On Thu, 06 Oct 2011 09:06:40 +0100, Invisible wrote:

>>> Well, at least you don't have to worry about it lagging out because
>>> the scheduled antivirus scan just kicked in... Even so, there's
>>> something deeply broken about purchasing a powerful computational
>>> device and then purchasing another one to do the actual math for you.
>>
>> Sometimes a simpler tool is a better tool. :)
> 
> Dude, that's like saying that sometimes a 1/4 lb planishing hammer is
> better than a 6 lb sledgehammer!
> 
> Oh, wait...

Bingo! ;)

Jim

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>>>> Ever noticed that the keyboard has a calculator side pad?
>>>
>>> Not on my laptop.
>>
>> My new laptop does though. ;-)
>
> I've seen a few laptops that have them, but the vast majority (especially
> if you have a 'standard' (as opposed to 'wide') screen.

Uh... I /think/ I understand what you wrote...

>>    From what I've seen, both layouts are equally common.
>
> Not on a computer - at least not that I've ever seen.  On a calculator,
> that may be true - I've only got 2 or 3 actual calculators here.

Yeah, the whole keyboard layout on an IBM PC is pretty much standard. I 
meant more generally on devices with 10-digit input. Telephones, 
calculators, combination locks, etc.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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>> I'm still trying to figure out how to make it permanently impossible to
>> ever turn numlock off under any circumstances. Every single ****ing time
>> I use Linux, I seem to have to turn numlock back on every 20 seconds. I
>> DO NOT EVER WANT IT TO TURN OFF!!!>_<
>
> It never changes state here for me automatically.

Interesting. Every time I boot the PC, it turns off. Every time I log in 
to the shell, it turns off. Every time I start X, it turns off. Every 
time I stop X, it turns off. Every time I log out of the shell, it turns 
off. It /constantly/ turns off.

Wait for the PC to boot up, turn on numlock, log in, turn numlock back 
on, start X, turn numlock back on /again/. Teach the X configuration. 
Stop X. Turn numlock back on. Start KDM. Turn numlock back on. Log in as 
a user. Turn numlock on again. See the pattern here?

I did once see somebody from the local LUG explain how to keep numlock 
permanently enabled in the shell, but it didn't seem to affect X.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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