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It's extremely rare to hear something insightful being said on a talk
show. However, just once, I did witness such a thing.
The following exchange occurred between some random parent, and the head
teacher of some obscure school:
Teacher: We don't perform competitive activities at our school.
Parent: Don't you believe in /challenging/ children? Don't you believe
in setting goals that will stretch them?
Teacher: We do believe in presenting children with strong challenges.
However, we believe it is important for children to learn that their
success doesn't have to come at the expense of anybody else.
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On 20/09/2011 11:18 AM, Invisible wrote:
> It's extremely rare to hear something insightful being said on a talk
> show. However, just once, I did witness such a thing.
>
> The following exchange occurred between some random parent, and the head
> teacher of some obscure school:
>
> Teacher: We don't perform competitive activities at our school.
> Parent: Don't you believe in /challenging/ children? Don't you believe
> in setting goals that will stretch them?
> Teacher: We do believe in presenting children with strong challenges.
> However, we believe it is important for children to learn that their
> success doesn't have to come at the expense of anybody else.
--
Regards
Stephen
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>> Teacher: We don't perform competitive activities at our school.
>> Parent: Don't you believe in /challenging/ children? Don't you believe
>> in setting goals that will stretch them?
>> Teacher: We do believe in presenting children with strong challenges.
>> However, we believe it is important for children to learn that their
>> success doesn't have to come at the expense of anybody else.
>
Think about it. In a competition, you win by making somebody else lose.
If you think about it, that's perhaps not a very good life lesson. Do we
really want children growing up thinking that the way to get ahead in
life is to put other people down?
Competition isn't about being the best that you can be. It's about being
better than everybody else in the competition. For some, that might be
an impossibly difficult task. For others, it might be so ridiculously
easy that it's no challenge for them. And then there's the people who
start thinking "well if I can't get better, is there a way I can make
everybody else get worse?"
This teacher's idea was that each child should have an individual goal
which is meaningful to them, and which they work towards. One person's
challenge might be a walk in the park for somebody else, but that's not
what matters. It matters whether *you* have goals that stretch *you*.
And the other part is, by doing things non-competitively, if you do
well, it doesn't make anybody else do less well. You don't have to
"beat" somebody else to achieve your own goals. And that's arguably a
much more positive way to approach life.
At least, that's what *I* took away from the exchange...
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Invisible <voi### [at] dev null> wrote:
> It's extremely rare to hear something insightful being said on a talk
> show. However, just once, I did witness such a thing.
>
> The following exchange occurred between some random parent, and the head
> teacher of some obscure school:
>
> Teacher: We don't perform competitive activities at our school.
> Parent: Don't you believe in /challenging/ children? Don't you believe
> in setting goals that will stretch them?
> Teacher: We do believe in presenting children with strong challenges.
> However, we believe it is important for children to learn that their
> success doesn't have to come at the expense of anybody else.
While I was thinking about how to word a reply that was largely in sympathy with
the practice downplaying the role of competition in education specifically and
society generally, it stuck me that I was also thinking about ways that I might
be able to assist in the resurrection of the IRTC, the Internet Ray Tracing
COMPETITION. Was I about to contradict myself yet again? Well, only sort of.
My real point is that opinions regarding the negative or positive value of
competition often are formed without due consideration being given to the
usually well-acknowledged principle that wisdom is seldom found at the extremes.
those who feels that our society frequently emphasizes and promotes competition
far in excess of the rational balance point that would be determined by asking
serious questions about when, where and in what degree competition would do more
strenuously in favor of competition do so in an extremely disingenuous fashion,
seeking only to cover their desire to dominate and profit at the expense of
agree to this are just pig-ignorant anarchist burdens on society who are getting
Showcase and dispense with the element of competition? Although this would be
fine by me personally, I have to admit that, in this case, an element of
competition is probably doing some good in motivating participation and
improving the quality of the images. The trick is not to let a preoccupation
with who wins run amok and take the fun out of the event for everyone. (Sadly, I
think we saw that happen a few times.)
everybody but YOU agrees that the Sun goes around the Earth, but you have to
Boys, take Mr. Galileo to the tower and 'explain' the advantages of
well-established tricks to control the herd, then stampede the herd to trample
the dissenters.
The idea that we should ALWAYS cooperate and NEVER compete is predicted on the
highly questionable assumption that there is someone who just KNOWS what is best
for everyone and how we should be going about achieving it.
As for the classroom environment, I support the notion of cutting way back on
creating artificial institutionally sponsored forums for separating students
questions about the intrinsic value of their efforts and actions instead. Life
on competition to become an irrational preoccupation with stamping out
meeting.
Best regards,
Mike C.
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On 20/09/2011 02:51 PM, Mike the Elder wrote:
> As for the classroom environment, I support the notion of cutting way back on
> creating artificial institutionally sponsored forums for separating students
> questions about the intrinsic value of their efforts and actions instead. Life
> on competition to become an irrational preoccupation with stamping out
> meeting.
This teacher was clearly of the opinion that *all* competition is
inherently a bad thing. Much like there are people who insist that
violence is wrong, and would peacefully let somebody beat them to death
rather than actually defend themselves.
Myself, I happen to agree with your sentiments on the matter...
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On 9/20/2011 5:54 AM, Invisible wrote:
>
> Think about it. In a competition, you win by making somebody else lose.
>
Of course, the real world is competitive. What you have done, by denying
the existence of competition is sent someone into society who is
ill-prepared to deal with that society. Sure, you can have personal
goals, but somewhere someone is going to lose out where you win. The
other applicants for a job, the promotion from a pool of workers,
finding a mate; all competitive.
By not acknowledging that the world is competitive, that person is
likely to experience extreme disappointment when they don't get the job.
"But it was my personal goal, why didn't it happen?"
Or, it could swing the other way. "Hey! It was my personal goal to
become manager. Your goals don't matter, so what is your problem? I
achieved my goal. I'm sure you will someday, too.
Learning competition means understanding that you will not always come
out on top. It's about learning to be fair to others. It means giving
the other side due consideration. I for one welcome competition in our
schools.
That statement by that teacher is dangerously ill-conceived, rather than
insightful.
--
~Mike
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On 9/20/2011 9:21 AM, Invisible wrote:
> This teacher was clearly of the opinion that *all* competition is
> inherently a bad thing. Much like there are people who insist that
> violence is wrong, and would peacefully let somebody beat them to death
> rather than actually defend themselves.
>
I'm forced into a class currently that appears to teach that sort of
passivity. Sorry, no ... you threaten my life and I will respond in
defense, even if that means causing a great deal of harm to the threat.
> Myself, I happen to agree with your sentiments on the matter...
--
~Mike
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On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:11:31 -0500, Mike Raiford wrote:
> On 9/20/2011 5:54 AM, Invisible wrote:
>
>
>> Think about it. In a competition, you win by making somebody else lose.
>>
>>
> Of course, the real world is competitive. What you have done, by denying
> the existence of competition is sent someone into society who is
> ill-prepared to deal with that society. Sure, you can have personal
> goals, but somewhere someone is going to lose out where you win. The
> other applicants for a job, the promotion from a pool of workers,
> finding a mate; all competitive.
>
> By not acknowledging that the world is competitive, that person is
> likely to experience extreme disappointment when they don't get the job.
> "But it was my personal goal, why didn't it happen?"
>
> Or, it could swing the other way. "Hey! It was my personal goal to
> become manager. Your goals don't matter, so what is your problem? I
> achieved my goal. I'm sure you will someday, too.
>
> Learning competition means understanding that you will not always come
> out on top. It's about learning to be fair to others. It means giving
> the other side due consideration. I for one welcome competition in our
> schools.
>
> That statement by that teacher is dangerously ill-conceived, rather than
> insightful.
I agree.
A world where people don't know that sometimes there is a winner and
sometimes there is a loser means that you get people who can't cope with
losing.
Of course it's important for students (and people in general) to know
that they often compete with themselves.
When kids who have never had to face losing hit the real world and, for
example, don't get a job from their first interview because there was a
better candidate then them, such a first loss is absolutely *devastating*.
I think that is something that contributes to workplace violence as well.
Jim
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On 9/20/2011 3:54, Invisible wrote:
> One person's challenge might be a walk in the park for somebody else
Somehow, I read that literally the first time, and thought of all the
charities that collect $X for every mile you walk.
--
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
How come I never get only one kudo?
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On 20-9-2011 19:24, Jim Henderson wrote:
> On Tue, 20 Sep 2011 12:11:31 -0500, Mike Raiford wrote:
>
>> On 9/20/2011 5:54 AM, Invisible wrote:
>>
>>
>>> Think about it. In a competition, you win by making somebody else lose.
>>>
>>>
>> Of course, the real world is competitive. What you have done, by denying
>> the existence of competition is sent someone into society who is
>> ill-prepared to deal with that society. Sure, you can have personal
>> goals, but somewhere someone is going to lose out where you win. The
>> other applicants for a job, the promotion from a pool of workers,
>> finding a mate; all competitive.
>>
>> By not acknowledging that the world is competitive, that person is
>> likely to experience extreme disappointment when they don't get the job.
>> "But it was my personal goal, why didn't it happen?"
>>
>> Or, it could swing the other way. "Hey! It was my personal goal to
>> become manager. Your goals don't matter, so what is your problem? I
>> achieved my goal. I'm sure you will someday, too.
>>
>> Learning competition means understanding that you will not always come
>> out on top. It's about learning to be fair to others. It means giving
>> the other side due consideration. I for one welcome competition in our
>> schools.
>>
>> That statement by that teacher is dangerously ill-conceived, rather than
>> insightful.
>
> I agree.
>
> A world where people don't know that sometimes there is a winner and
> sometimes there is a loser means that you get people who can't cope with
> losing.
>
> Of course it's important for students (and people in general) to know
> that they often compete with themselves.
>
> When kids who have never had to face losing hit the real world and, for
> example, don't get a job from their first interview because there was a
> better candidate then them, such a first loss is absolutely *devastating*.
>
> I think that is something that contributes to workplace violence as well.
Just a quick note: competitiveness is partly cultural. In some countries
students compete with every other student and the percentage of students
that pass is fixed. In other countries you pass if you meet a certain
level.
In a mixed group, like an international organization, not being aware of
that difference might lead to friction and even a complete shutdown of
all functionality. What happens is that a very competitive person gets
the top position by playing it hard. Everybody knows he got it that way
and not by being the right person for the job. Then nobody wants to work
with him (seldom a her) and nothing gets done.
Quite a lot of people that live in competitive countries are not aware
that the higher you get in an international organization the less you
can force someone lower in rank to do what you want. In a monoculture it
works different.
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