> LOL, so I guess you're OK with calling something only 30/40 years
> "Classic". I guess then by that scale, Bob Dylan would be what ...
> antique ;-)

Seen any classic computers recently? ;-)

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Jim Holsenback <nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> OK ... scrolling through the Icecast Directory and I see this
> station/listing for "Classic Rap". Is there really such a thing, and if
> the answer is yes, I think I'll just go ahead a shoot myself ;-)

I, too, am often annoyed with the inappropriate over-usage of the term
"Classic".  "Classic Coke" was the one that really got to me.

Although the rap genre has never been a personal favorite of mine, the form did
have, in its origins, a certain type of authenticity. It was genuinely "music
from the streets" wherein people who didn't have access to music studios or
expensive instruments gave expression to what they were actually experiencing
and feeling.  It is understandable to me that someone might want to
differentiate between this older form and the stuff the music industry
conglomerates have been manufacturing and marketing ever since rap developed a
large popular following.  Still, I think a more appropriate adjective than
"Classic" could be found.

Best Regards,
Mike C.

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On 7/7/2011 3:27, Jim Holsenback wrote:
> LOL, so I guess you're OK with calling something only 30/40 years "Classic".

Classic and Classical are two different words. 40-year-old cars are "classic".

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Coding without comments is like
    driving without turn signals."

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Jim Holsenback <nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> LOL, so I guess you're OK with calling something only 30/40 years 
> "Classic". I guess then by that scale, Bob Dylan would be what ... 
> antique ;-)

  It depends on the lifespan of the genre. "Classic" or "classical" usually
refers to the beginnings, when the genre was still new and finding its
shape.

  Theatre has existed for thousands of years, hence you wouldn't call
1950's theatre "classical", but instead classical theatre would be something
from 2000 years ago.

  In contrast, rock&roll has existed for less than 100 years, so "classical
rock&roll" would be something like from the 1950's and before.

  Rap began in the 70's and 80's, and hence the classical period of rap
would be from those times.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On 07/07/2011 11:16 AM, Mike the Elder wrote:
> Jim Holsenback<nom### [at] nomailcom>  wrote:
>> OK ... scrolling through the Icecast Directory and I see this
>> station/listing for "Classic Rap". Is there really such a thing, and if
>> the answer is yes, I think I'll just go ahead a shoot myself ;-)
>
> I, too, am often annoyed with the inappropriate over-usage of the term
> "Classic".  "Classic Coke" was the one that really got to me.

Thanks Mike ... this is the point I was trying to make.

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On 07/07/2011 01:46 PM, Warp wrote:
> Jim Holsenback<nom### [at] nomailcom>  wrote:
>> LOL, so I guess you're OK with calling something only 30/40 years
>> "Classic". I guess then by that scale, Bob Dylan would be what ...
>> antique ;-)
>
>    It depends on the lifespan of the genre. "Classic" or "classical" usually
> refers to the beginnings, when the genre was still new and finding its
> shape.
>
>    Theatre has existed for thousands of years, hence you wouldn't call
> 1950's theatre "classical", but instead classical theatre would be something
> from 2000 years ago.
>
>    In contrast, rock&roll has existed for less than 100 years, so "classical
> rock&roll" would be something like from the 1950's and before.
>
>    Rap began in the 70's and 80's, and hence the classical period of rap
> would be from those times.
>

Now here's some cira 1965 rap for ya ;-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_ujAXxNxU0

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On 7/7/2011 9:46 AM, Warp wrote:
> Jim Holsenback<nom### [at] nomailcom>  wrote:
>> LOL, so I guess you're OK with calling something only 30/40 years
>> "Classic". I guess then by that scale, Bob Dylan would be what ...
>> antique ;-)
>
>    It depends on the lifespan of the genre. "Classic" or "classical" usually
> refers to the beginnings, when the genre was still new and finding its
> shape.
>
>    Theatre has existed for thousands of years, hence you wouldn't call
> 1950's theatre "classical", but instead classical theatre would be something
> from 2000 years ago.
>
>    In contrast, rock&roll has existed for less than 100 years, so "classical
> rock&roll" would be something like from the 1950's and before.
>
>    Rap began in the 70's and 80's, and hence the classical period of rap
> would be from those times.
>

I've occasionally heard "classic" used this way, but never "classical", 
and frankly it sounds pretty wrong to my ears.  I'd always taken 
"classical" in this context (that is, the context of art) to refer to 
one of the following:

1) Art work from antiquity (particularly ancient Greece and Rome)
2) Art inspired by antiquity
3) Art marked by a simplicity of form and/or a restraint of emotion
4) A generic term for "serious" art
5) The two definitions which pertain the the genre of music (related to 
some of the above)

Am I missing something and it's actually in common usage to use 
"classical" to refer simply to the origins of a genre?  It seems a waste 
to generalize a perfectly useful word like that when there's others that 
are better suited anyway.

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Jim Holsenback <nom### [at] nomailcom> wrote:
> Now here's some cira 1965 rap for ya ;-)
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d_ujAXxNxU0

  I like this one more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nej4xJe4Tdg

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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On 07/07/2011 05:46 PM, Warp wrote:
> Jim Holsenback<nom### [at] nomailcom>  wrote:
>> LOL, so I guess you're OK with calling something only 30/40 years
>> "Classic". I guess then by that scale, Bob Dylan would be what ...
>> antique ;-)
>
>    It depends on the lifespan of the genre. "Classic" or "classical" usually
> refers to the beginnings, when the genre was still new and finding its
> shape.
>
>    Theatre has existed for thousands of years, hence you wouldn't call
> 1950's theatre "classical", but instead classical theatre would be something
> from 2000 years ago.
>
>    In contrast, rock&roll has existed for less than 100 years, so "classical
> rock&roll" would be something like from the 1950's and before.
>
>    Rap began in the 70's and 80's, and hence the classical period of rap
> would be from those times.

Performance using musical instruments dates back at least a millennium, 
and possibly into prehistory. And yet, "classical music" is generally 
taken to extend from 1750 AD to 1830 AD. Right after the baroque period 
and just before the romance period.

BTW, I'm still waiting on who exactly decided that this was to be the 
case...

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Kevin Wampler <wam### [at] uwashingtonedu> wrote:
> On 7/7/2011 9:46 AM, Warp wrote:
> > Jim Holsenback<nom### [at] nomailcom>  wrote:
> >> LOL, so I guess you're OK with calling something only 30/40 years
> >> "Classic". I guess then by that scale, Bob Dylan would be what ...
> >> antique ;-)
> >
> >    It depends on the lifespan of the genre. "Classic" or "classical" usually
> > refers to the beginnings, when the genre was still new and finding its
> > shape.
> >
> >    Theatre has existed for thousands of years, hence you wouldn't call
> > 1950's theatre "classical", but instead classical theatre would be something
> > from 2000 years ago.
> >
> >    In contrast, rock&roll has existed for less than 100 years, so "classical
> > rock&roll" would be something like from the 1950's and before.
> >
> >    Rap began in the 70's and 80's, and hence the classical period of rap
> > would be from those times.
> >
>
> I've occasionally heard "classic" used this way, but never "classical",
> and frankly it sounds pretty wrong to my ears.  I'd always taken
> "classical" in this context (that is, the context of art) to refer to
> one of the following:
>
> 1) Art work from antiquity (particularly ancient Greece and Rome)
> 2) Art inspired by antiquity
> 3) Art marked by a simplicity of form and/or a restraint of emotion
> 4) A generic term for "serious" art
> 5) The two definitions which pertain the the genre of music (related to
> some of the above)
>
> Am I missing something and it's actually in common usage to use
> "classical" to refer simply to the origins of a genre?  It seems a waste
> to generalize a perfectly useful word like that when there's others that
> are better suited anyway.

Classical refers to a particular time period.  Classic means it's worthy enough
to be talked about in studying classes.

I don't think there'll ever be classic rap... :p

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