On 4/22/2011 2:28, andrel wrote:
> On 21-4-2011 4:31, Darren New wrote:
>> On 4/20/2011 15:07, andrel wrote:
>>> Suspiciously absent from the blurb is 'how to prevent them'.
>>
>> Actually, the beginning of the book basically says "there's lots of
>> books about preventing bugs. This is a book about fixing them once they
>> happen." He's very clear about that.
>
> I don't own the book. I only saw the page you linked to.

That's why I'm telling you. :-)

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Coding without comments is like
    driving without turn signals."

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On 4/22/2011 3:09, andrel wrote:
> *) Some changes might trigger a tool to create a tool to be rebuild.

Just so you know, this isn't difficult in Windows. Heck, I don't even have 
to write the makefiles myself - the IDE does it. I have lots of data formats 
that I wrote my own compiler for that automatically gets compiled before the 
data that depends on them gets compiled.  Stuff like taking a bunch of 
frames for an image, automatically laying them out on a bigger sheet and 
storing the boundary information separately with an annotation that the 
boundary information depends on the constructed sheet and the constructed 
sheet depends on the individual frames and the program depends on the parser 
for the boundary information and the individual boundary information files 
and etc etc etc. It's not any harder (if not easier) to set up in Windows 
than Linux.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Coding without comments is like
    driving without turn signals."

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On 4/13/2011 10:30 PM, Darren New wrote:
> Am I old, or is it really unprofessional to publish an API and have the
> official documentation for the function call be "go read this guy's blog
> from last June to see an example of how to use this API"? Even if the
> guy is the one that implemented it?

In the military in the 2000-01 timeframe they release the Job 
Qualification Standard for my specialty (small computers maintenance), 
and many of the training references were to websites.  Many of the web 
sites did not belong to the military, and some of them were no longer 
on-line when I went to read them.

Nice idea, until you try it.

Regards,
John

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On 22-4-2011 17:57, Darren New wrote:
> On 4/22/2011 3:09, andrel wrote:
>> *) Some changes might trigger a tool to create a tool to be rebuild.
>
> Just so you know, this isn't difficult in Windows. Heck, I don't even
> have to write the makefiles myself - the IDE does it.

The IDE's that I (superficially) tried when it was relevant (5-10 years 
ago) seemed not able to call ctangle before calling the c-compiler (it 
simply assumed you were writing C source directly). Let alone call 
cweave or mweave (our matlab frontend) to create the docs or mtangle and 
leave the results alone. I think some even created a makefile from 
scratch everytime, in order to make it impossible to tweak it yourself.
  Unfortunately also in that period I simply had no time for a full 
investigation, people had problems recording and analysing their data. 
And I could modify the matlab sources directly. Always planning to 
backport in the WEB files of course...

> I have lots of
> data formats that I wrote my own compiler for that automatically gets
> compiled before the data that depends on them gets compiled. Stuff like
> taking a bunch of frames for an image, automatically laying them out on
> a bigger sheet and storing the boundary information separately with an
> annotation that the boundary information depends on the constructed
> sheet and the constructed sheet depends on the individual frames and the
> program depends on the parser for the boundary information and the
> individual boundary information files and etc etc etc. It's not any
> harder (if not easier) to set up in Windows than Linux.

That might be. In Un*x it is simple a set of scripts and makefiles. 
Something I understand. IME in windows it was often hard or impossible 
to parse such script files. For some reason I quite often end up wanting 
to automatically change them, but that may just be me.

Things might have changed a lot since then. What IDE are you using?


-- 
Apparently you can afford your own dictator for less than 10 cents per 
citizen per day.

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On 4/23/2011 2:51, andrel wrote:
> Things might have changed a lot since then. What IDE are you using?

Visual Studio 2010 at the moment. It's all XML files.

Indeed, I have a data processor that you can say "this file compiles with 
the manifest processor", and each time you run the compile, the manifest 
processor parses the makefile to figure out what files go into the final 
build and sticks their names into a text file which it adds to the final 
build. The sort of thing you'd normally use directory enumeration at runtime 
to fetch, if you weren't sandboxed out of the directory access 
functionality.  So I stick in a file with the name "manifest", say "compile 
this with the manifest processor". The manifest processor gets compiled, 
then runs and looks at the makefile, pulls out the list of dependencies 
marked as "to be copied to the final distribution directory", and stores 
that into the manifest file, which then gets copied into the destination 
directory also (while leaving the manifest processor behind, mind).

The makefiles are all XML of dependencies and what commands to run, but 
there are few if any dependencies in the makefile on actual files per se. 
For each directory, there's a list of "these files should be compiled with 
those compilers" and a list of "this entire project depends on that antire 
project." It's mildly funky because before you can (conveniently) say 
"compile manifest.txt with the manifest processor" you must have already 
compiled the manifest processor once. Obviously that's an IDE limitation and 
not a makefile limitation, tho, since you can delete all the results and 
still do the recompile.

But most of the dependency analysis is done by the actual compiler as it 
compiles. For example, if you say "I want a house model, and it depends on 
the bricks texture and the wood texture", you don't put that information in 
the makefile. You put that information in the house model. When the 
processor processes the house model, it tells the build system that the 
house model depends on the textures, so if you change a texture after you've 
built the house, it rebuilds the house too. But you don't do that stuff 
manually - that's just silly.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Coding without comments is like
    driving without turn signals."

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On 4/23/2011 9:42, Darren New wrote:
> So I stick in a file with the name "manifest", say "compile
> this with the manifest processor".

Oh, and if there's parameters specific to that compile (like, whether to 
compress images or something), they're represented as properties with an 
attribute set (basically, in the "javabean" kind of sense), and the build 
system looks at the executable after it's built in order to give the GUI a 
mechanism to prompt for which parameters need to be changed. It then records 
those parameters into the build file again in XML, and passes them to the 
processor when it recompiles anything in that dependency chain.

Overall, a very cool system. It just takes a bit of cooperation from the 
compiler to make it all work seamlessly.

-- 
Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Coding without comments is like
    driving without turn signals."

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On 19/04/2011 10:31 AM, Invisible wrote:

> http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1144

Angus?

The Angus she eventually ended up hooking up with?

Oh, sorry - you guys don't care about that. I forget sometimes...

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