Invisible wrote:
> My problem is this: M$ doesn't even bother *trying* to produce 
> high-quality software. They just release the most bug-ridden lump of 
> junk they think they can possibly get away with.

You haven't really worked with buggy software, I take it.

You do realize that your view is likely colored by the fact that your job is 
to fix Windows when it breaks, right?  It's like an auto mechanic saying 
cars are all pieces of crap because they're constantly coming into the 
garage to get fixed.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
    back to version 1.0."
   "We've done that already. We call it 2.0."

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Invisible wrote:
> How about the fact that most other software companies manage to produce 
> software of a higher quality than Microsoft, 

Bwaaa haa haa ha... Yeah, tell me another.

> Maybe I'm just delusional, but other companies seem to at least 
> *attempt* to produce quality products. 

You really do begin to sound religious here.

> Other companies don't seem to need to use dirty tricks to get your 
> money. (In the main, anyway.)

Bwaaaa haa haa ha... How many companies have you negotiated contracts with? 
How many companies have you taken public?

How many overage fees have you paid to the bank because they cashed the 
biggest checks first before processing the deposits you put in the same day?

> And exactly how many people know that OpenOffice exists?

I don't know. Since you brought it up, why don't you tell us?

Oh, wait... You're guessing the answer that makes MS look bad, because you 
dislike MS.

> Tell you what, if you'd like to come over sometime and show our Report 
> Writers how to make Word stop crashing constantly, I'm sure they'd be 
> delighted...

Start with a fresh document and rebuild your templates, so you're not using 
already-corrupted documents.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
    back to version 1.0."
   "We've done that already. We call it 2.0."

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Invisible wrote:
> Last time I checked, 

GIYF.  Office standard: $400 ($240 upgrade). Office home: $150 ($99 for 
real).  Small business: $450.

$450 for a full business office suite is trivial, dude. That's like one 
day's salary for someone, if that.

> In contrast, a graphic tablet and a copy of Photoshop cost my dad about
 
> £75 (I think), and that's *very* specialist...

I don't know where you got photoshop for that price, but you're comparing
 
apples and oranges. I'm looking at retail prices from the manufacturer.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "We'd like you to back-port all the changes in 2.0
    back to version 1.0."
   "We've done that already. We call it 2.0."

Post a reply to this message

Invisible wrote:
>>>   Not as right as Nintendo, though, as Wii is selling almost as much as
>>> Xbox 360 and PS3 combined...
>>
>> Yes, to a completely different group of people.
> 
> That's the genius of it, see?

 From a business point of view, yes.  I thought you didn't like big 
business, though? :)

What I really get annoyed at is people claiming things like, "the Wii 
will completely change video games."  Not for ME it won't.  I'm probably 
never going to buy a Wii, or its successor unless it can handle more 
hardcore video games better, and I don't want my games dumbed down for 
the Wii audience to sell more units.

There's already enough of that in games, what with things like slow 
movement, auto aiming, health regeneration, et cetera.

-- 
Chambers

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Invisible wrote:
> As if that wasn't bad enough, then they try to claim that they're these 
> visionary leaders of innovation and technical advancement, when they 
> can't even produce a word processor that works properly - something that 
> existed decades ago...

To reference your own example and use your own terminology, almost every 
feature of OpenOffice Writer was "stolen" from MS Word.  Even the menus 
were laid out as similarly as possible.

-- 
Chambers

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> A better question might be how much does Office cost? (A lot of people 
> seem to be quite shocked that this doesn't just "come with" a computer. 
> They think of "a computer" as a thing that runs Word...)

It does come with a lot of computers though, again I suspect they get a bulk 
discount on Office as well as Windows.

> Last time I checked, it's something like £100 for Word, £180 for Word + 
> Excel, £250 for Word + Excel + PowerPoint, and steeper still if you want 
> the other stuff. (Admittedly, most people just want Word, or maybe Word 
> and Excel.)

Amazon has Office 2007 Home/Student version for 67 pounds. That gets you 
Word, Excel and PowerPoint which can be installed on up to 3 machines. 
Doesn't sound bad to me!

> In contrast, a graphic tablet and a copy of Photoshop cost my dad about 
> £75 (I think), and that's *very* specialist...

That's probably PS Elements, the cut-down version of PS, presumably released 
to compete with Paint Shop Pro.

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> To reference your own example and use your own terminology, almost every 
> feature of OpenOffice Writer was "stolen" from MS Word.  Even the menus 
> were laid out as similarly as possible.

Yes, this was such a dirty trick by Open Office, take some program that 
another company had spent years and huge amounts of money to develop, and 
BLATANTLY just copy it so it looks almost identical.  Then, give it away for 
FREE!  How can they get away with that?  They're parasites trying to crush 
everyone else.

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>> That's the genius of it, see?
> 
> From a business point of view, yes.  I thought you didn't like big 
> business, though? :)

I don't like being cheated out of my money, no. But the Wii is actually 
geniunely unusual and interesting. I can see why people would buy it. 
(Although *I* won't be buying one any time soon...)

> What I really get annoyed at is people claiming things like, "the Wii 
> will completely change video games."  Not for ME it won't.

Perhaps not completely, no. But I think it opens up some interesting 
possibilities. It's just a question of how to apply it most usefully.

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scott wrote:
>> A better question might be how much does Office cost? (A lot of people 
>> seem to be quite shocked that this doesn't just "come with" a 
>> computer. They think of "a computer" as a thing that runs Word...)
> 
> It does come with a lot of computers though, again I suspect they get a 
> bulk discount on Office as well as Windows.

Really? Interesting... I've seen a few PCs that come with M$ Works, but 
not Office itself.

>> Last time I checked, it's something like £100 for Word, £180 for Word 
>> + Excel, £250 for Word + Excel + PowerPoint, and steeper still if you 
>> want the other stuff. (Admittedly, most people just want Word, or 
>> maybe Word and Excel.)
> 
> Amazon has Office 2007 Home/Student version for 67 pounds. That gets you 
> Word, Excel and PowerPoint which can be installed on up to 3 machines. 
> Doesn't sound bad to me!

Sure, but only if you're a student. That's no help to anybody else.

>> In contrast, a graphic tablet and a copy of Photoshop cost my dad 
>> about £75 (I think), and that's *very* specialist...
> 
> That's probably PS Elements, the cut-down version of PS, presumably 
> released to compete with Paint Shop Pro.

I was surprised that you can even buy the hardware part for just £75, 
given how niche this product is...

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>> To reference your own example and use your own terminology, almost 
>> every feature of OpenOffice Writer was "stolen" from MS Word.  Even 
>> the menus were laid out as similarly as possible.
> 
> Yes, this was such a dirty trick by Open Office, take some program that 
> another company had spent years and huge amounts of money to develop, 
> and BLATANTLY just copy it so it looks almost identical.  Then, give it 
> away for FREE!  How can they get away with that?  They're parasites 
> trying to crush everyone else.

I would be far more sympathetic if it weren't for the fact that Open 
Office was put together in (comparatively speaking) five minutes yet 
works far better than the thing it's copying. You would expect quite the 
opposite; Microsoft has been developing and testing their Office for 
*decades*. You'd think it would be perfectly honed and polished by now. 
The fact that somebody else can knock something up in five minutes that 
works better doesn't reflect well on M$.

Still, I would prefer it if OO didn't try so hard to exactly copy M$. 
Who says the MS Office menu layout is the most logical choice? Why don't 
they come up with something better themselves? (Similar remarks apply to 
KDE and the way it attempts to copy Windows rather than come up with 
something better.) The answer, presumably, is that copying an existing 
product means people don't have to "learn" anything to use the new one - 
but then, that does start to make you wonder what the advantage of the 
new one actually is...

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