On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:05:46 -0800, Darren New wrote:

> I never had that trouble on Linux, because I've never run it on a
> machine where either hibernate or standby even starts to work. ;-)

I use hibernate extensively with my Dell D620 laptop - I don't shut the 
system down unless I absolutely have to (like a kernel update).

Jim

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On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 01:56:24 +0200, Eero Ahonen wrote:

> With RedHat 7.something in 2001-2002 I had to ifdown eth0 && ifup eth0
> after hibernating HP Omnibook 6000. I never tried the onboard modem,
> though.
> 
> So I guess Linux sucks also :p.

Or you just need to try a more recent version. :-)

Jim

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On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:49:16 +0000, Orchid XP v8 wrote:

>>> Either way, don't you find that huge amounts of hardware stops working
>>> properly when you start it back up again?
>> 
>> Maybe that happens on Windows, but I don't have that experience on
>> openSUSE 11.  Therefore, Windows sucks. ;-)
> 
> I just observe that there's a *vast* list of KB articles about "device X
> does something weird after hibernation", "device Y does something weird
> after hibernation", "device Z stops working after hibernation"... Maybe
> they fixed all the problems by now, but the fact that so many exist in
> the first place suggests that getting this to work properly is
> fundamentally "difficult".
> 
> (Personally, I wouldn't know. I never, ever, use any kind of standby
> mode. My PC is always on, or off.)

You kinda missed my point. ;-)

Jim

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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:03:37 -0800, Chambers wrote:
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: Mueen Nawaz [mailto:m.n### [at] ieeeorg] Chambers wrote:
> >> > So I decided to stick with Windows, and guess what?  Things just
> >> work.
> >>
> >>  Except a lot of those Linux apps.

Unfortunately, free software means the source is available even to Windows
whinners to use because there will be always someone willing to port them to
Windows.

> > Fact is, for the foreseeable future, I'm writing Linux off and sticking
> > with Windows.

Whoa, now I feel a freeze down the spine!  Oh, it's just the chair...

> > credit for.  Over the last 10 years I've tried Linux several times, for
> > several reasons, and the longest I lasted with it was about two months.
> > It's never been worth the headaches involved, and unless something

I always suggest people look up compatibility lists before purchasing new
hardware to work with Linux or before installing it in their current gear.  90%
of whatever headaches just magically disappear.

> You keep talking about "headaches".  I've been using it for 12 years, and
> most of that time no headaches at all.

I've been using it as my sole home system for some 8 years.  No headaches except
in the very beggining when I was learning my way.  Today I even found Ubuntu
kinda boring for almost no challenging usability/bug issues...

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Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:22:31 -0600, Mueen Nawaz wrote:
> >  Significant and impressive. However, chances are that if you have
> a
> > well known big budget game and want to get it running under Wine, it
> > likely won't work.
>
> There are better chances now that it will than ever before.  And if you
> go for Cedega (or Transgaming, or whatever they're calling themselves
> now), they've expanded the supported function calls so there's actually a
> very good chance it *will* work.

A work colleague used to play WoW on his Debian box at home.  Wine, of course.

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nemesis wrote:
> A work colleague used to play WoW on his Debian box at home.  Wine, of
> course.

Isn't there a native WoW for Linux?

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Nicolas Alvarez escreveu:
> Isn't there a native WoW for Linux?

I don't know, but he said he used wine.

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On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:37:48 -0500, nemesis wrote:

> Jim Henderson <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote:
>> On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:22:31 -0600, Mueen Nawaz wrote:
>> >  Significant and impressive. However, chances are that if you have
>> a
>> > well known big budget game and want to get it running under Wine, it
>> > likely won't work.
>>
>> There are better chances now that it will than ever before.  And if you
>> go for Cedega (or Transgaming, or whatever they're calling themselves
>> now), they've expanded the supported function calls so there's actually
>> a very good chance it *will* work.
> 
> A work colleague used to play WoW on his Debian box at home.  Wine, of
> course.

I used to play Neverwinter Nights back when that was popular, and it 
actually ran *better* under WINE than on native Windows.  I had two 
identical Dell C640 laptops, one with Windows, one with Linux (RedHat 9, 
IIRC, so not even something recent - well, recent then, but you know what 
I mean).  The Linux one consistently outperformed the Windows one.

Jim

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On Mon, 15 Dec 2008 14:33:54 -0500, nemesis wrote:

>> You keep talking about "headaches".  I've been using it for 12 years,
>> and most of that time no headaches at all.
> 
> I've been using it as my sole home system for some 8 years.  No
> headaches except in the very beggining when I was learning my way. 
> Today I even found Ubuntu kinda boring for almost no challenging
> usability/bug issues...

Hehehehe, I know what you mean - 2 days now to 11.1, and I hear it's even 
better than 11.0, which I've had very good success with.

Jim

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>> I didn't do anything to the kernel - I changed the graphics card. And
>> witout X, I have *no idea* how to configure X. (Well, without
>> reinstalling anyway. And that's so much bother...)
> 
> XF86Config used to be the way to do it.  And it actually wouldn't run (at 
> least as I recall) if X was running - it required text mode.

Actually I'm pretty sure when I first tried RedHat, XF86Config would 
produce a config file but X11 still wouldn't actually run, I had to go 
in with Vi and made some crucial change. (I forget what exactly.) And 
then I had to reboot the PC to get out of Vi. :-P

But then, that was *waaaay* back in the days when you needed to know 
which RAMDAC your graphics card uses and the vertical sync frequency of 
your monitor. Thankfully, the Linux install process usually figures that 
out automatically now. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any way 
to make it re-figure-that-out when you change something afterwards. :-(

>> OpenSUSE has fixed this; you can now run the configuration tools in
>> text-mode.
> 
> Text mode X11 configuration apps have been around for a while, longer 
> than sax2, in fact.

...which is of no help whatsoever if you can't *find* them.

>>>> (E.g., klogic. It does almost exactly what I want. But it doesn't
>>>> *work* properly. It randomly segfaults, and sometimes it GIVES YOU THE
>>>> WRONG ANSWER. It's also fiddly to use for no good reason.)
>>> And did you submit bugs against this, or did you just say "this thing
>>> doesn't work" to yourself and go somewhere else.
>> Well, without an Internet connection, how am I going to file a bug?
> 
> You still don't have an Internet connection?  How did you obtain the 
> Linux installation in the first place?

Mail order.

You remember? That thin that existed before the Internet became popular?

(Actually, at the time I tried out klogic, we *did* have an Internet 
connection, but I didn't even bother to *attempt* to make it work under 
Linux. Making the "simple" stuff work was hard enough...)

> That doesn't mean they didn't (or don't, in the case of Loki) exist.  
> Don't buy into the FUD that says "there's absolutely no gaming available 
> on Linux AT ALL" and take it for the gospel truth.

I didn't say "none", I said "not much", which would seem a fair 
assessment. (Isn't there some dealy called Tux Racer or something now?)

Weirdly, almost all of Valve's games run on Linux - or rather, the GAME 
SERVER runs on Linux. The clients are Windows-only. (In fairness, what 
does a game server do? It sends and receives UPD datagrams. Can't be 
*that* hard to port it. Drawing 3D graphics is another matter...)

>> Mmm, that's impressive. (Given that what Wine does should be impossible
>> in the first place...)
> 
> Why should it be impossible?  Reverse engineering isn't impossible work, 
> it's been done for hundreds of years.
> 
> If you see a finished Lego Technics car and have no instructions, do you 
> assume nobody could ever build that same car again, even if they have the 
> ability to take the one that's there apart?  Same thing applies to 
> software engineering and identifying the inputs/outputs of functions.  
> It's time consuming, but time consuming != impossible.

Right. Because a Lego Technics car is of similar complexity to the 
Windows operating system. Sure. So you've got several GB of data, and 
you can only pick apart a few dozen bytes of it per day. Sure, shouldn't 
take long. Much like given a large enough group of monkeys, one of them 
is *sure* to type the complete works of Shakespear eventually...

Besides, I was under the distinct impression that it's *illegal* to 
reverse-engineer Windows. And that its implementation is covered by 
several billion patents precisely to prevent anybody ever making 
something compatible with it, for that matter.

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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