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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Jim Henderson [mailto:nos### [at] nospam com]
> Then add to that Windows apps that work with WINE
WINE is a joke. The last time I tried Linux (sometime in the last 12
months, I don’t even remember when), I installed the latest version of
WINE, and NOTHING worked correctly. Even the programs advertised as
working would fail horrible deaths.
So I decided to stick with Windows, and guess what? Things just work.
...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com
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Chambers wrote:
> WINE is a joke. The last time I tried Linux (sometime in the last 12
> months, I don’t even remember when), I installed the latest version of
> WINE, and NOTHING worked correctly. Even the programs advertised as
> working would fail horrible deaths.
>
> So I decided to stick with Windows, and guess what? Things just work.
Except a lot of those Linux apps.
--
Don't use a big word where a diminutive one will suffice.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawazorg<<<<<<
anl
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> -----Original Message-----
> From: Mueen Nawaz [mailto:m.n### [at] ieeeorg]
> Chambers wrote:
> > So I decided to stick with Windows, and guess what? Things just
> work.
>
> Except a lot of those Linux apps.
And guess what? I don't miss any of them. I can't remember the last time
I needed a program to do something, did a google search, and only found a
Linux app that wouldn't run under Windows.
Fact is, for the foreseeable future, I'm writing Linux off and sticking
with Windows. It does what I want, and better than the critics give it
credit for. Over the last 10 years I've tried Linux several times, for
several reasons, and the longest I lasted with it was about two months.
It's never been worth the headaches involved, and unless something
seriously screwy happens to drive me off Windows, I doubt I'll go through
those headaches again.
But then, I'm also upgrading my computer less than I used to (says the man
who just installed a new graphics card last week, and has a new HDD being
shipped atm). I'm getting tired to "using the computer," and I'm more
interested these days in actually "using the computer to get things done."
Linux, despite the headaches, was a lot of fun when I tried it before, but
it was also a full-time hobby. I don't have time for the hobbies I
already have, so not having to worry about my OS is a bonus for me.
...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com
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On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 19:29:53 -0800, Chambers wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Jim Henderson [mailto:nos### [at] nospamcom] Then add to that Windows
>> apps that work with WINE
>
> WINE is a joke. The last time I tried Linux (sometime in the last 12
> months, I don’t even remember when), I installed the latest version of
> WINE, and NOTHING worked correctly. Even the programs advertised as
> working would fail horrible deaths.
>
> So I decided to stick with Windows, and guess what? Things just work.
Generally speaking, WINE works for me. Crossover Office works for me.
YMMV. <shrug>
Jim
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On Sun, 14 Dec 2008 20:03:37 -0800, Chambers wrote:
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Mueen Nawaz [mailto:m.n### [at] ieeeorg] Chambers wrote:
>> > So I decided to stick with Windows, and guess what? Things just
>> work.
>>
>> Except a lot of those Linux apps.
>
> And guess what? I don't miss any of them. I can't remember the last
> time I needed a program to do something, did a google search, and only
> found a Linux app that wouldn't run under Windows.
>
> Fact is, for the foreseeable future, I'm writing Linux off and sticking
> with Windows. It does what I want, and better than the critics give it
> credit for. Over the last 10 years I've tried Linux several times, for
> several reasons, and the longest I lasted with it was about two months.
> It's never been worth the headaches involved, and unless something
> seriously screwy happens to drive me off Windows, I doubt I'll go
> through those headaches again.
>
> But then, I'm also upgrading my computer less than I used to (says the
> man who just installed a new graphics card last week, and has a new HDD
> being shipped atm). I'm getting tired to "using the computer," and I'm
> more interested these days in actually "using the computer to get things
> done."
>
> Linux, despite the headaches, was a lot of fun when I tried it before,
> but it was also a full-time hobby. I don't have time for the hobbies I
> already have, so not having to worry about my OS is a bonus for me.
>
> ...Ben Chambers
> www.pacificwebguy.com
You keep talking about "headaches". I've been using it for 12 years, and
most of that time no headaches at all.
I use it on all of my work machines, and have for at least the last 8
years or so.
Jim
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On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:50:43 +0000, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> All I remember is that even after endless fiddling, I couldn't get 3D
>>> acceleration to work. (Actually producing a picture didn't require any
>>> special attention at all.)
>>
>> Yes. *Used* to be. Not anymore.
>
> When last I heard, all the nVidia and ATi offerings for Linux were a
> half-empty token gesture. I'd be surprised if they seriously changed
> their minds about it... but stranger things have happened.
Well, I've only got a laptop in front of me with an NVidia chipset and a
second one with an ATI chipset in it, and both work flawlessly with
acceleration enabled. Am I imagining it? I don't *think* so. ;-)
>>> OK, to be completely clear: It booted, but X wouldn't run.
>>
>> That's quite different from "the Linux partition was non-bootable",
>> which is almost a direct quote of what you originally said. X not
>> running is something that used to be an issue with a kernel update.
>> It's rare now.
>
> I didn't do anything to the kernel - I changed the graphics card. And
> witout X, I have *no idea* how to configure X. (Well, without
> reinstalling anyway. And that's so much bother...)
XF86Config used to be the way to do it. And it actually wouldn't run (at
least as I recall) if X was running - it required text mode.
> OpenSUSE has fixed this; you can now run the configuration tools in
> text-mode.
Text mode X11 configuration apps have been around for a while, longer
than sax2, in fact.
>>> (E.g., klogic. It does almost exactly what I want. But it doesn't
>>> *work* properly. It randomly segfaults, and sometimes it GIVES YOU THE
>>> WRONG ANSWER. It's also fiddly to use for no good reason.)
>>
>> And did you submit bugs against this, or did you just say "this thing
>> doesn't work" to yourself and go somewhere else.
>
> Well, without an Internet connection, how am I going to file a bug?
You still don't have an Internet connection? How did you obtain the
Linux installation in the first place?
>>> Anyway, how much *commercial* software (such as big-budget games) are
>>> there for Linux?
>>
>> Ever hear of Cedega? Transgaming? Loki Games?
>
> Nope.
That doesn't mean they didn't (or don't, in the case of Loki) exist.
Don't buy into the FUD that says "there's absolutely no gaming available
on Linux AT ALL" and take it for the gospel truth.
>> If I can find a quality OSS solution for no cost, why would I look to a
>> commercial application?
>
> There *is* that of course. ;-)
And the way the economy is going around the world, OSS applications are
going to become more and more pervasive because of their low buy-in
cost. Start learning more about it and assume *nothing*.
>>> It's news to me that *anything* works under WINE yet. (But then,
>>> admittedly it's not something I follow closely. If I want to run
>>> Windows software, I just run Windows...)
>>
>> Go and look at the Wine AppDB. The list of supported apps is
>> significant.
>
> Mmm, that's impressive. (Given that what Wine does should be impossible
> in the first place...)
Why should it be impossible? Reverse engineering isn't impossible work,
it's been done for hundreds of years.
If you see a finished Lego Technics car and have no instructions, do you
assume nobody could ever build that same car again, even if they have the
ability to take the one that's there apart? Same thing applies to
software engineering and identifying the inputs/outputs of functions.
It's time consuming, but time consuming != impossible.
>>> Of course, it depends what you're trying to do with your PC...
>>
>> Exactly. And that's part of the reason why the approach of saying what
>> you said that got me started is the wrong approach.
>
> Hmm. OK, now I'm confused. :-}
Mission accomplished! ;-)
Jim
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On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 19:22:31 -0600, Mueen Nawaz wrote:
> Jim Henderson wrote:
>
>> Go and look at the Wine AppDB. The list of supported apps is
>> significant. Which reminds me, I need to try running Framemaker 8
>> under it. One less reason to run Windows in a VMware session.
>
> Significant and impressive. However, chances are that if you have
a
> well known big budget game and want to get it running under Wine, it
> likely won't work.
There are better chances now that it will than ever before. And if you
go for Cedega (or Transgaming, or whatever they're calling themselves
now), they've expanded the supported function calls so there's actually a
very good chance it *will* work.
Jim
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On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 17:05:46 -0800, Darren New wrote:
> I never had that trouble on Linux, because I've never run it on a
> machine where either hibernate or standby even starts to work. ;-)
I use hibernate extensively with my Dell D620 laptop - I don't shut the
system down unless I absolutely have to (like a kernel update).
Jim
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On Sat, 13 Dec 2008 01:56:24 +0200, Eero Ahonen wrote:
> With RedHat 7.something in 2001-2002 I had to ifdown eth0 && ifup eth0
> after hibernating HP Omnibook 6000. I never tried the onboard modem,
> though.
>
> So I guess Linux sucks also :p.
Or you just need to try a more recent version. :-)
Jim
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On Fri, 12 Dec 2008 21:49:16 +0000, Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>> Either way, don't you find that huge amounts of hardware stops working
>>> properly when you start it back up again?
>>
>> Maybe that happens on Windows, but I don't have that experience on
>> openSUSE 11. Therefore, Windows sucks. ;-)
>
> I just observe that there's a *vast* list of KB articles about "device X
> does something weird after hibernation", "device Y does something weird
> after hibernation", "device Z stops working after hibernation"... Maybe
> they fixed all the problems by now, but the fact that so many exist in
> the first place suggests that getting this to work properly is
> fundamentally "difficult".
>
> (Personally, I wouldn't know. I never, ever, use any kind of standby
> mode. My PC is always on, or off.)
You kinda missed my point. ;-)
Jim
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