Stephen wrote:
> On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 00:13:16 +0200, andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom>
> wrote:
> 
>> Zaandam, just north west of amsterdam, why?
> 
> It seemed such a Dutch reply. (No bad thing :)
Huh, ok.
> I am working in Sluiskil, Zeeland just now, for my sins :)
Shall I do another one?
I know there are differences in legislation between the Netherlands and 
Belgium which makes Zeeuws Vlaanderen a good place for a certain type of 
  business. I hope you are not referring to that kind of sin.

Post a reply to this message

"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message 
news:4803c958$1@news.povray.org...
> St. wrote:
>> "Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message 
>> news:48038975$1@news.povray.org...
>>
>>
>>> It's not that you know lots of doctors. It's that you ignore all the 
>>> poor people who you pass every day.
>>
>>      That was a low call.
>
> Perhaps I phrased it wrong. It's that you're not conciously counting all 
> the people who aren't making $400K that you pass each day, because they're 
> not exceptional in your mind. (That's what "selection bias" means, in some 
> sense.)

     You're not making sense. In one sentence they're 'poor people', and in 

175 grand lying around, I could then classify myself as 'poor' too. Wait... 
I don't earn 11% of that...   :o/


    ~Steve~


>
> -- 
>   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
>     "That's pretty. Where's that?"
>          "It's the Age of Channelwood."
>     "We should go there on vacation some time."

Post a reply to this message

Gail Shaw wrote:
> Now, I know very little about the economic situation in the US, other that
> what I read, so I may be waaaay off base but...
> Look how many of the comments are only blaming the government. Is everyone
> else completely without blame?

I blame the people.

Here's one comment I loved:

"The middle class is to blame for for middle class woes. Middle class 
America has been living lifestyle that exceeds their income for far too 
long.



governemnt starts giving out more handouts, middle class America needs 
to tighten their belts, live sensibly, and yes, maybe even cancel cable 
TV before sending out a lynch mob on the GOP and big oil."

I work in a bank.  I see people's finances.  And what I see scares me.

Now, to be clear, I'm not a pessimistic believer in the apocalypse, 
waiting for doom around every corner.  I don't believe this country, or 
any other, has to "fall", "be destroyed", or anything else.  I think 
widespread poverty, unemployment, and other ills *can* happen, but that 
they are, in many cases, preventable.  Especially in those areas where 
education is readily available.

The other day, I was talking to someone about saving money.  They tried 
the usual objects, "Oh, it's hard, I don't make very much, blah blah 
blah".  Of *course* they think it's hard, they've never done it! 
Anyway, I was telling this person that first, it's possible, and second, 
it's important that they make sacrifices to save money.  One of the 
other tellers butted in, agreeing with the customer that it wasn't 
reasonable to expect them to save money!  I practically wanted to rip 
her throat out for being so stupid, and undermining everything I was saying.

As long as society in general doesn't value thriftiness(1), sacrifice, 
or saving, then society in general will have all kinds of problems.  I'm 
not going to have those problems(2), because I'm not going to *let* 
myself have them.

(1) Thrifty != cheap.  I fully believe in investing money wisely, and 
spending it when you're getting good value for it.  I do *not* believe 
in choosing the cheapest option just because it's the cheapest.

(2) This is not to say I won't have problems.  However, I'm not going to 
have to worry about my financial future, or my ability to live.  I am 
completely in control of those things, and I know enough to take care of 
myself.

-- 
...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
> Except the government. They get money because they shoot you if you 
> don't give it to them.

Governments are just protection rackets with good PR ;)

-- 
...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

Post a reply to this message

Darren New wrote:
> http://www.house.gov/jec/news/news2006/pr109-94.pdf

Now, *this* is interesting.

"At least part of the increase in taxes paid by the higher percentiles 
may be related to higher capital gains realizations following the 
reduction of the capital gains tax rate in 2003."

In other words, *reducing* the capital gains tax (a move many criticized 
Bush for, saying it was a "tax break for the rich"), resulted in them 
paying *more* in taxes.

-- 
...Ben Chambers
www.pacificwebguy.com

Post a reply to this message

"Chambers" <ben### [at] pacificwebguycom> wrote in message
news:480425f1@news.povray.org...
>
> I work in a bank.  I see people's finances.  And what I see scares me.

Likewise, though I'm not a teller.

> The other day, I was talking to someone about saving money.  They tried
> the usual objects, "Oh, it's hard, I don't make very much, blah blah
> blah".  Of *course* they think it's hard, they've never done it!
> Anyway, I was telling this person that first, it's possible, and second,
> it's important that they make sacrifices to save money.  One of the
> other tellers butted in, agreeing with the customer that it wasn't
> reasonable to expect them to save money!  I practically wanted to rip
> her throat out for being so stupid, and undermining everything I was
saying.

That's just stupid. Bank employees are supposed to give good financial
advice. So, if it's not reasonable to expect them to save, what happens when
they're out of a job for just a month?

> As long as society in general doesn't value thriftiness(1), sacrifice,
> or saving, then society in general will have all kinds of problems.  I'm
> not going to have those problems(2), because I'm not going to *let*
> myself have them.

Agreed. I've got somewhere around 8 months salary saved up, not counting
some long term investments. It's nice to have, because it gives me a cushion
should anything happen, and it lets me take risks (like the upcoming job
move) without worrying if I'll be able to pay the home loan off.

A few years ago, I was unemployed for almost 6 months. Wasn't easy, but I
didn't have to go into debt.

I know some people that complain about being underpaid and broke at the end
of the month, but they go out to expensive restaurants regularly and 'own' a
car worth about half of what my house is. For some reason, I feel little
sympathy.

Post a reply to this message

St. wrote:
>>>> It's not that you know lots of doctors. It's that you ignore all the 
>>>> poor people who you pass every day.
>>>      That was a low call.
>> Perhaps I phrased it wrong. It's that you're not conciously counting all 
>> the people who aren't making $400K that you pass each day, because they're 
>> not exceptional in your mind. (That's what "selection bias" means, in some 
>> sense.)
> 
>      You're not making sense.

That's because you're taking the conversation completely out of context.

In this context, if you actually look, "poor" is the 98th percentile and 
lower. "Poor" as opposed to "filthy rich."  "Poor" as in "I know lots of 
people making more than $328K a year, so there couldn't possibly be 99% 
of the country making less than that."

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     "That's pretty. Where's that?"
          "It's the Age of Channelwood."
     "We should go there on vacation some time."

Post a reply to this message

On Tue, 15 Apr 2008 05:11:22 +0200, andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom>
wrote:

>> It seemed such a Dutch reply. (No bad thing :)
>Huh, ok.

Some humour does not travel :)

>> I am working in Sluiskil, Zeeland just now, for my sins :)
>Shall I do another one?

No, I have enough of my own :)

>I know there are differences in legislation between the Netherlands and 
>Belgium which makes Zeeuws Vlaanderen a good place for a certain type of 
>  business. I hope you are not referring to that kind of sin.

LOL No (If I understand you, although I have been to Terneuzen where
there is a large tourist industry for that sort of thing :). I am
working for a chemical and fertiliser company.
I had not heard "Zeeuws Vlaanderen" before but now know where you
mean.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:06:24 -0700, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
wrote:

>
>Yes. Relatively speaking, I know personally not that many whose AGI is 
>more than $250K.  One out of 100 of the people I know? Yeah, that's 
>about right.

Well OK 250k USD even at today's rate is a bit high, although 200k USD
would be not unusual for IT consultants in the UK (at least in SAP).
But then our cost of living is high.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message

On Mon, 14 Apr 2008 20:08:11 -0700, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom>
wrote:


>Thinking that it's actually *right* for the mob to tear the rich people 
>apart instead of simply mob violence? Yeah, that *is* so yesterday.
>

I forgot that "Come the revolution" is probably not a common phrase in
the US :)
Of course it is not right to condone mob violence and I personally
don't. I was just feeling "Bolshy" 

>I subscribe to the "if it needs to be done, don't try to justify it with 
>morality" school. If the rich need to be beat up, don't try and get God 
>or Right or History to justify you. Just go do it.

Well I don't agree with that approach at all, at all.  
Although a little bit of pragmatism never comes amiss. 
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

Post a reply to this message