I agree. I am comfortable with POV's scripting language, yet I still use
Moray all of the time.  When I have very simple scenes to set up, I sometimes
just type it up quickly in the text editor.

I do feel that having a good knowledge of the scripting language is a great
help even if you use a modeller.  Also, as some pointed out, there are some
features that are not supported by any modeller, so I find myself tweaking
almost all of my scenes in some way.

-Nathan

Johannes Hubert wrote:
> 
> And then there are others (very comfortable with programming and scripting
> in general) who never "gravitate away" from modelers, simply prefering their
> ease of use and instant visual feedback over a script-language, and instead
> using their programming skills for writing tools and plug-ins for stuff not
> possible in their modeler of choice. You know, about a year ago I planned an
> image that would involve many trees, which I had no idea how to build in
> Moray, so I set out to write a tool to help me with that - alas, the tool is
> there, but the image is still only a figment of my imagination... ;-)
> 
> Johannes.

Post a reply to this message

Johannes Hubert wrote:
> 
> Ken wrote in message <36ABF76A.3C524C31@pacbell.net>...
> [snip]
> >Others will start with a modeling program
> >and slowly gravitate away from it when they realize there are
> >features in pov that no modeler supports and are forced to work
> >with text only.
> [snip]
> 
> And then there are others (very comfortable with programming and scripting
> in general) who never "gravitate away" from modelers, simply prefering their
> ease of use and instant visual feedback over a script-language, and instead
> using their programming skills for writing tools and plug-ins for stuff not
> possible in their modeler of choice. You know, about a year ago I planned an
> image that would involve many trees, which I had no idea how to build in
> Moray, so I set out to write a tool to help me with that - alas, the tool is
> there, but the image is still only a figment of my imagination... ;-)
> 
> Johannes.

Yep, I've tried several modellers but can't find the patience to get familiar
with any of them, while I do have the patience to type out the code (the
keyboard-cowboy-syndrome). It's the same with HTML. Odd, actually...

Remcodd

Post a reply to this message

Remco de Korte wrote:
> 
> Johannes Hubert wrote:
> >
> > Ken wrote in message <36ABF76A.3C524C31@pacbell.net>...
> > [snip]
> > >Others will start with a modeling program
> > >and slowly gravitate away from it when they realize there are
> > >features in pov that no modeler supports and are forced to work
> > >with text only.
> > [snip]
> >
> > And then there are others (very comfortable with programming and scripting
> > in general) who never "gravitate away" from modelers, simply prefering their
> > ease of use and instant visual feedback over a script-language, and instead
> > using their programming skills for writing tools and plug-ins for stuff not
> > possible in their modeler of choice. You know, about a year ago I planned an
> > image that would involve many trees, which I had no idea how to build in
> > Moray, so I set out to write a tool to help me with that - alas, the tool is
> > there, but the image is still only a figment of my imagination... ;-)
> >
> > Johannes.
> 
> Yep, I've tried several modellers but can't find the patience to get familiar
> with any of them, while I do have the patience to type out the code (the
> keyboard-cowboy-syndrome). It's the same with HTML. Odd, actually...
> 
> Remcodd

Agree with you here.... I once learned AutoCad, and was very satisfied with the work I
could produce, even in 3D. Back then, I had no idea about POv, and when I came to POV,
I
started to code it by hand, found it far easier than my last projects before that(A
vesa
3D lib in pascal) and stuck with it. I've tried several modellers(Calimax, Moray,
PovLab,
sPatch) and I'm not satisfied with any of them, mostly because I haven't got enough
patience with a modeller to come to the same stage I am in text base, so I see no gain
in
using them.

//Spider

Post a reply to this message

Johannes Hubert <jhu### [at] algonetse> wrote:
: (I think Warp has some other URL for it that he prefers, but I can't find it
: at the moment...)

  It should be easy to remember.
  The only thing you really have to memorize is "iki". Perhaps you could
remember this by thinking it resembles the acronym "aka" (also know as), but
with i's instead of a's.
  By now you should know that I'm finnish, so the beginning of the url should
be easy to remember: http://iki.fi/
  My nickname should also be familiar, so the url continues:
http://iki.fi/warp/
  And now you only have to remember the file name povVFAQ.html. So the
complete url is:
http://iki.fi/warp/povVFAQ.html

  Perhaps I should add one question to the VFAQ: Where is the VFAQ?
  :)

-- 
main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
*_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*- Warp. -*/

Post a reply to this message

Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
> Johannes Hubert <jhu### [at] algonetse> wrote:
> : (I think Warp has some other URL for it that he prefers, but I can't find it
> : at the moment...)
> 
>   It should be easy to remember.
>   The only thing you really have to memorize is "iki". Perhaps you could
> remember this by thinking it resembles the acronym "aka" (also know as), but
> with i's instead of a's.
>   By now you should know that I'm finnish, so the beginning of the url should
> be easy to remember: http://iki.fi/
>   My nickname should also be familiar, so the url continues:
> http://iki.fi/warp/
>   And now you only have to remember the file name povVFAQ.html. So the
> complete url is:
> http://iki.fi/warp/povVFAQ.html
> 
>   Perhaps I should add one question to the VFAQ: Where is the VFAQ?
>   :)

You say you are finnish ? Is your finnish shiny or dull ?

:)

-- 
Ken Tyler

tyl### [at] pacbellnet

Post a reply to this message

Good for you ;)


Spider wrote:
> 
> Agree with you here.... I once learned AutoCad, and was very satisfied with the work
I
> could produce, even in 3D. Back then, I had no idea about POv, and when I came to
POV, I
> started to code it by hand, found it far easier than my last projects before that(A
vesa
> 3D lib in pascal) and stuck with it. I've tried several modellers(Calimax, Moray,
PovLab,
> sPatch) and I'm not satisfied with any of them, mostly because I haven't got enough
> patience with a modeller to come to the same stage I am in text base, so I see no
gain in
> using them.
> 
> //Spider

-- 
 omniVERSE: beyond the universe
  http://members.aol.com/inversez/POVring.htm
=Bob

Post a reply to this message

Thanks for your "memorization-manual" ;-) but now I don't really need it
anymore, since I updated my bookmark with the URL you gave me - which is for
me by far the easiest way to "memorize" an URL :-)

Johannes.

Post a reply to this message

Ken <tyl### [at] pacbellnet> wrote:
: You say you are finnish ? Is your finnish shiny or dull ?

object
{ Warp
  pigment { color Skin }
  finnish { Dull }
  interior { Gold }
}

-- 
main(i){char*_="BdsyFBThhHFBThhHFRz]NFTITQF|DJIFHQhhF";while(i=
*_++)for(;i>1;printf("%s",i-70?i&1?"[]":" ":(i=0,"\n")),i/=2);} /*- Warp. -*/

Post a reply to this message

Ken schrieb in Nachricht <36ABF76A.3C524C31@pacbell.net>...

>Opinion wise I suggest you use whatever method suits you and allows
>you to be as creative as you can be. If you follow my lead you will
>be a better artist than the modeler alone Pov user because you will
>understand the inner working of Pov to a greater extint than you can
>in a modeler only environment. This is not to say you can't achieve
>great results in a modeler only environment I just feel you will limit
>your possibilities.


I agree with you. Modellers are nice for easily cooking up a scene and
visualising it (I have been working on a visualisation of Escher's
"Ascending/Descending" and it would have been hard to experiment with the

modeller), but they lack the fine tuning of the scene language. Later on I
developed a #macro to calculate the placement (and size, which is the trick)
of some parts of the stairs, so I abandoned the model from the modeller.

Also the textures and lighting can be tested a bit easier with a good
modeller (or texture program).

To Matt's question I would say, the best thing is to use a lot of paper in
the beginning. Later on, you will find out you'll be able to do most of
these things in your head instead of using pen and paper. If you can do
that, you'll find you don't need a modeller anymore, unless you want to do
something like the Escher scene.

--
Rudy Velthuis

Post a reply to this message

Nieminen Mika schrieb in Nachricht <36ac6bc5.0@news.povray.org>...

>  Why is it so difficult to just implement the feature for those who want
>to use it? If he doesn't like the left handed system, nobody is forcing
>him to use it.
>  I can't see what harm would an option like this do to the program.


How true!

The program should offer what the (paying) customers need and want, not what
the programmers like. The philosophy of the program wouldn't change a lot
and propably the code changes would be rather trivial (if the program code
is well designed, at least).

--
Rudy Velthuis

Post a reply to this message