In article <3e06181c@news.povray.org>,
 "Thorsten Froehlich" <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:

> Yes, they have to be smaller than 4096 pixels.  There used to be an error
> message if this was detected before rendering before.  As that code was
> replaced, the error message seems to have been lost :-(

I thought the PICT limit was 32768x32768...maybe I'm thinking of the 
QuickDraw API.

-- 
Christopher James Huff <cja### [at] earthlinknet>
http://home.earthlink.net/~cjameshuff/
POV-Ray TAG: chr### [at] tagpovrayorg
http://tag.povray.org/

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In article <chr### [at] netplexaussieorg> , 
Christopher James Huff <chr### [at] maccom>  wrote:

> I thought the PICT limit was 32768x32768...maybe I'm thinking of the
> QuickDraw API.

The limit is of Picts is that of PixMaps.  To be precise, the rowbytes field
uses a few of the upper bits to store other information.  This design
problem dates back to System 1 and the original QuickDraw.  While it is
fixed in Mac OS 9 and later, it has never been documented by Apple how to
access the 32 bit rowbyte field.  And the Pict image format would not be
able to handle it either.

So, while QuickDraw can handle 32k*32k pixels, one cannot create a single
bitmap of such a big image.  For this this reason since POV-Ray 3.1 Mac the
preview is split into tiles, which works around the problem to some extend.
However, doing the same for rendering to Pict images would require enormous
amounts of memory and such Pict images would not be supported by all
applications (also in theory it would be possible to create such a Pict
image) or System 7.x and earlier.

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 5:19:57 +1100, Renderdog wrote
(in message <web.3e06024d42f46e194b5522fd0@news.povray.org>):

> Dale Walsh wrote:
> 
>> Add me to the list, the render queue stays open and I have to quit to
>> get it to stop.  I see a lot of people have this problem but I see no
>> answers?  G4, OS 9.2.2, Carbon Lib 1.6; all the same systems?

I haven't looked at the render queue. The render progress dialog 
does the same for me as others have reported - i.e. never has 
information in it, scrolling candy-cane the entire time [even after 
a render finishes - small scenes only...].

> I'm running on a 500MHz G4 PowerBook, OS 9.2.2, Carbon Lib 1.6, and I
> have no problems with the rendering speed or the queue. I set POV-Ray
> to Tyrannical or Selfishly fast and turned all the sleep and power saving
> settings off.

My G4 400 is a tower [Zip drive, DVD-RAM, USB CDR/CD-RW, internal 
scsi card, 256MB, 20GB and 80GB ATA drives].

[snip - answered since]

Have Fun
Martin
-- 
Kinky:
What I do that you wouldn't
Perverted:
What you do that I wouldn't

Almost always SMASHed

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Martin Crisp wrote:

[snip]

>My G4 400 is a tower [Zip drive, DVD-RAM, USB CDR/CD-RW, internal
>scsi card, 256MB, 20GB and 80GB ATA drives].
>

Now tested on another machine: G4 500 MHz [9.2.2 Carbonlib 1.5], more
extensions than I could list (a graphic designer's machine).

Scenes tested: abyss.pov; and parallel_lights.pov [This last needed to
be done at 640x480 to be up long enough for the slowdown to be apparent.]

Same problem, timings are slightly different as to when the slowdown
happens, but once it happens screen updates are every minute (going by
menubar clock). One difference in config: this machine has only one HD, so
POV-Ray is on the same partition as the system (on mine they're on separate
(physical) disks.

Have Fun
Martin
--
To email me don't change the email address, unless you want to.

Kinky: what I do that you wouldn't.
Perverted: what you do that I wouldn't.

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On Sun, 22 Dec 2002 22:29:28 +1100, Martin Crisp wrote
(in message <0001HW.BA2BED48001659E70D78DFC0@news.povray.org>):

[snip]

> As my bug report noted - the behaviour I'm describing occurs 
> whether I boot with my (few) 3rd party extensions, or with the Base 
> 9.2.2 set. I can install a fresh system on an empty partition... 
> I'll let you know how that goes. Failing that, and given the 
> similarity with symtoms that others have reported, what's weird 
> about _your_ system?

[snip]

OK, did that. Installed 9.0.4(Z1)->9.1->9.2.1->9.2.2
Left CarbonLib at 1.4
No other software bar what apple dumped on the HD.

Put POV-Ray on the same partition.
Tried rendering 7Facets.pov with anti-aliasing @640x480.

Same result as previous.

Copied POV-Ray to my wife's machine:
7500 upgraded to a G3@312MHz, 64MB memory [+VM @ 170MB - so she can 
play Civ III, really slowly :-)], OS Z1-9.1, CarbonLib 1.5.
Tried rendering 7Facets.pov with anti-aliasing @640x480.

Same result.

4 machines, 4 identical slowdowns.

Suggestions of what to try next most welcome.

Have Fun
Martin
-- 
Kinky:
What I do that you wouldn't
Perverted:
What you do that I wouldn't

Almost always SMASHed

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In article <0001HW.BA2D0F4B0002F2930F175220@news.povray.org> , Martin Crisp
<Spa### [at] tesseractcomau>  wrote:

> 4 machines, 4 identical slowdowns.

No, that just does not make sense.  And as you have noticed, nobody else is
having such a problem.  Maybe you have a corrupted download or something
like that.  Or you got a virus that attached itself to POV-Ray and thus you
copied it each time.  What you report does not even make sense :-(

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:

> > 4 machines, 4 identical slowdowns.
> 
> No, that just does not make sense.  And as you have noticed, nobody else is
> having such a problem.  Maybe you have a corrupted download or something
> like that.  Or you got a virus that attached itself to POV-Ray and thus you
> copied it each time.  What you report does not even make sense :-(
>     Thorsten


Thorsten,

I can't believe you call him mad ! If you start insulting everybody
that is reporting a bug, then we're not finished yet. Pov-Ray 3.5 
still has problems on Mac OS 9, and I suppose you know it. It seems
to me that you, as everybody else in this newsgroup, should rather 
thank Martin for the time he spends trying to make things advance.

Btw, what does internal error -10000 means ? I got it several times
this morning after switching to preemptive threading as you suggested
and experiencing slowdowns similar to Martin's symptoms...
See this link for a screenshot :

http://cassio.free.fr/divers/Screen_error.png

I could fill a more fromal bug report if that helps.

Sincerely yours,
Stephane.

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On Mon, 23 Dec 2002 20:30:52 +1100, Thorsten Froehlich wrote
(in message <3e06d7cf@news.povray.org>):

> In article <0001HW.BA2D0F4B0002F2930F175220@news.povray.org> , 
> Martin Crisp <Spa### [at] tesseractcomau>  wrote: 
> 
>> 4 machines, 4 identical slowdowns.
> 
> No, that just does not make sense.  And as you have noticed, 

Unfortunately, sense or not, it is what I'm seeing.

BUT: Not with the preemptive threading turned on! [Only just tried 
that.]

The differences it made were:
1) the render progress dialog shows details!
2) I can type this while it is rendering in the background [set on 
lowest throttle, of course]
3) no slowdown after ~30 seconds, updates to the preview are smooth 
and continuous, what I would 'expect', rather than a line exactly 
every 60 seconds.
4) if I wait another minute or few (currently line 216 of 480) I 
predict I'll see a render finish 'cleanly'. It did.
5) a fatal error(-10000) when I quit partway through a render.
6) quitting after a render finished was substantially quicker than 
previous (a few seconds).

> nobody else is having such a problem.  Maybe you have a 

[with preemptive threading off:]
Nobody else is reporting it the same as me, perhaps. If someone's 
menubar clock shows the time in seconds, and it updates for the 
first little while of a render, then stops dead - would they report 
that as a slowdown, or a freeze? Several others have reported 
freezes. Others have reported that renders never start on big 
scenes. Which is what I get if I try to render (2^n)-1 differences 
of spheres nested inside each other using a while loop (and a chunk 
then taken out of all of them by subtracting a box), when n>11. 
(n=11 starts to render after about 20 seconds or so, n=12 doesn't 
after 10 minutes). Spheres inside spheres, radii halving.



> corrupted download or something like that.  Or you got a virus 

I've used 2 separate downloads, one on my local machines, and one 
on the graphic designer's machine (the G4 500 with CarbonLib 1.5). 
I downloaded this latter several days ago, but only unpacked it 
today. The .smi is mounted without reporting a checksum error. 
Corrupted download is very unlikely. I haven't transferred any data 
to that machine from home, so viral contamination is unlikely too. 
[And I've no other 'symptoms' of a virus and the only other 
slowdown I have is my newsreader when it's trying to deal with 
subscriptions with more than 50,000 articles. Or old versions of 
applescript that have memory leaks when they open and close files]


> that attached itself to POV-Ray and thus you copied it each 
> time.  What you report does not even make sense :-( 

If it made sense I (probably - I majored in Comp Sci, graphics and 
digital image processing my best subjects) wouldn't be needing to 
ask.
[But I don't read C very well and haven't kept up with what Carbon 
did to the Mac API, so looking at the source wouldn't help. :-(]

I'm just reporting a problem I have (and from what others have said 
that they may have too, but are describing differently) in the hope 
of finding a solution.

Does knowing it works fine with preemptive threading turned on help 
any?

Have Fun
Martin [much happier :-)]
-- 
Kinky:
What I do that you wouldn't
Perverted:
What you do that I wouldn't

Almost always SMASHed

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(in message <1fnn944.1lvwmom1f70r48N%cassio@free.fr>):

> Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> 
>>> 4 machines, 4 identical slowdowns.
>> 
>> No, that just does not make sense.  And as you have noticed, nobody else is
>> having such a problem.  Maybe you have a corrupted download or something
>> like that.  Or you got a virus that attached itself to POV-Ray and thus you
>> copied it each time.  What you report does not even make sense :-(
>> Thorsten
> 
> 
> Thorsten,
> 
> I can't believe you call him mad ! If you start insulting everybody

I can, and I don't hold it against him. If it works on Thorsten's 
machine (and presumably others) then that's great. It _is_ 
difficult writing code and then debugging it long distance, 
particularly if you can't reproduce the bug (and I shudder at the 
thought of doing it for a raytracer - and that's after reading 
Principles of Computer Graphics :-)). [Thorsten: remember that 
weird 'is it pov or is it the mac' bug to do with CDs and macros in 
3.0?] I write code for a living (not as close to the metal as C or 
C++, however), and have to support users who don't read 
instructions, don't listen (and can't in one guy's case...), and so 
on. Thinking an individual user is mistaken is an easy, and 
foregiveable, trap to fall into.

> that is reporting a bug, then we're not finished yet. Pov-Ray 3.5 
> still has problems on Mac OS 9, and I suppose you know it. It seems
> to me that you, as everybody else in this newsgroup, should rather 
> thank Martin for the time he spends trying to make things advance.
> 
> Btw, what does internal error -10000 means ? I got it several times
> this morning after switching to preemptive threading as you suggested
> and experiencing slowdowns similar to Martin's symptoms...

Likewise, quitting when a render was partway through, and PT was 
on. [After seeing the render progress dialog progress... I'm in 
love ;-)]

> See this link for a screenshot :
> 
> http://cassio.free.fr/divers/Screen_error.png
> 
> I could fill a more fromal bug report if that helps.

Have Fun
Martin
-- 
a logician telling a computer programmer about logic, is like a cat 
telling a fish about being wet.
[author unknown, to me. Yes, I know it's a two-edged sword, 
thanks.]

Almost always SMASHed

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In article <0001HW.BA2D4A770010D86F04AF8FF0@news.povray.org> , Martin Crisp
<Spa### [at] tesseractcomau>  wrote:

> Does knowing it works fine with preemptive threading turned on help
> any?

Yes, I assumed you had it on for the four tests and then your report would
not have made sense ... if the effect goes away with it being enabled, then
leave it on (also the switch is hidden, it will remain in effect when
restarting POV-Ray).

    Thorsten

____________________________________________________
Thorsten Froehlich, Duisburg, Germany
e-mail: tho### [at] trfde

Visit POV-Ray on the web: http://mac.povray.org

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