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7 Jun 2023 20:40:12 EDT (-0400)
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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: 3dclouds include file
Date: 20 May 2017 03:02:55
Message: <591fea1f$1@news.povray.org>
On 19-5-2017 16:18, Norbert Kern wrote:
> I meant I'll download it, if you really mean 3dclouds.inc instead of
> 3dscloud.inc.
>

Thanks too. That one was missing from my collection :-)

-- 
Thomas


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From: Norbert Kern
Subject: Re: 3dclouds include file
Date: 20 May 2017 06:50:01
Message: <web.59201e385c709eced775dd110@news.povray.org>
Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:

> Thanks too. That one was missing from my collection :-)



Hi Thomas,

perhaps we should exchange our collections (I'm living in Northrhine
Westphalia...)

My main comps foresay for images and pov-related files about 1 to 2 TB, so why
not meet physically and excange (mobile) hard drives?

Of course I'ld include all of my personal files too...


Norbert


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: 3dclouds include file
Date: 21 May 2017 02:41:17
Message: <5921368d$1@news.povray.org>
On 20-5-2017 12:45, Norbert Kern wrote:
> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>
>> Thanks too. That one was missing from my collection :-)
>
>
>
> Hi Thomas,
>
> perhaps we should exchange our collections (I'm living in Northrhine
> Westphalia...)
>
> My main comps foresay for images and pov-related files about 1 to 2 TB, so why
> not meet physically and excange (mobile) hard drives?
>
> Of course I'ld include all of my personal files too...
>
>
> Norbert
>

Hmmm, that is more volume than I have memory to tell the truth :-) In 
all fairness, I only collect what I /think/ I may need one day, so I 
cannot boast to a very complete POV-Ray collection and much of it I have 
never used. I would rather like to call for a way to bring all those 
goodies produced over the years to the easy access of everybody 
interested, like the Objects Collection. I think it is a pity that so 
much has gone into oblivion.

-- 
Thomas


Post a reply to this message

From: Le Forgeron
Subject: Re: 3dclouds include file
Date: 21 May 2017 06:47:00
Message: <59217024$1@news.povray.org>
Le 21/05/2017 à 08:41, Thomas de Groot a écrit :
> 
> Hmmm, that is more volume than I have memory to tell the truth :-) In
> all fairness, I only collect what I /think/ I may need one day, so I
> cannot boast to a very complete POV-Ray collection and much of it I have
> never used. I would rather like to call for a way to bring all those
> goodies produced over the years to the easy access of everybody
> interested, like the Objects Collection. I think it is a pity that so
> much has gone into oblivion.
> 

there would be a need for some classification/keyword to help the
exploration, and I'm afraid that legal issue might block a bit.

Obviously, the Object Collection, due to licensing, is not suitable for
such second-hand utilities.
Moreover, it's outdated and hand-written.

I would think about something like wikimedia might be a possible
solution: one page per contributions, using [[category:Name]] in text to
put keyword.
And the page should provides the credit as well as much information as
possible.

Protection against spamming is another problem to keep in mind.


Post a reply to this message

From: pascal
Subject: Re: 3dclouds include file
Date: 21 May 2017 07:34:14
Message: <59217b36$1@news.povray.org>
On 21/05/2017 08:41, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> On 20-5-2017 12:45, Norbert Kern wrote:
>> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks too. That one was missing from my collection :-)
>>
>>
>>
>> Hi Thomas,
>>
>> perhaps we should exchange our collections (I'm living in Northrhine
>> Westphalia...)
>>
>> My main comps foresay for images and pov-related files about 1 to 2
>> TB, so why
>> not meet physically and excange (mobile) hard drives?
>>
>> Of course I'ld include all of my personal files too...
>>
>>
>> Norbert
>>
>
> Hmmm, that is more volume than I have memory to tell the truth :-) In
> all fairness, I only collect what I /think/ I may need one day, so I
> cannot boast to a very complete POV-Ray collection and much of it I have
> never used. I would rather like to call for a way to bring all those
> goodies produced over the years to the easy access of everybody
> interested, like the Objects Collection. I think it is a pity that so
> much has gone into oblivion.
>
I totally agree...
I used to play with povray about 15 years ago...and there were plenty of 
sites, tutos etc dedicated to this. The large majority of my saved pov's 
bookmark is dead now.
I lost the drive on which I saved all this stuff.
And by the way...If I'd dare...I ask if someone has the Ledensky's 
"3dclouds.pov" which came with the include file ?
Thanks in advance...
Pascal


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From: Bald Eagle
Subject: Re: 3dclouds include file
Date: 21 May 2017 09:30:01
Message: <web.5921964d5c709eceacfa72180@news.povray.org>
Le_Forgeron <jgr### [at] freefr> wrote:
> Le 21/05/2017 à 08:41, Thomas de Groot a écrit :

> I would rather like to call for a way to bring all those
> > goodies produced over the years to the easy access of everybody
> > interested, like the Objects Collection. I think it is a pity that so
> > much has gone into oblivion.

Indeed.   I have wondered if there were an "advanced civilization", would we
have any [recognizable] record of/from them - everything could be on a chip the
size, shape, and color of a grain of sand, and it could be protected / encrypted
or otherwise obfucscated.

I have seen a LOT of great ideas developed in the POV-Ray world, and it would be
a wonderful thing to have as much of a record of that as we could.

> there would be a need for some classification/keyword to help the
> exploration, and I'm afraid that legal issue might block a bit.

https://www.ip-watch.org/2008/07/07/intellectual-property-regime-stifles-science-and-innovation-nobel-laureates-say/
https://www.fastcodesign.com/1669150/watch-how-ip-laws-destroy-creativity-instead-of-encouraging-it

> Obviously, the Object Collection, due to licensing, is not suitable for
> such second-hand utilities.
> Moreover, it's outdated and hand-written.


> I would think about something like wikimedia might be a possible
> solution: one page per contributions, using [[category:Name]] in text to
> put keyword.
> And the page should provides the credit as well as much information as
> possible.
>
> Protection against spamming is another problem to keep in mind.

Along the same lines that I was thinking about the "monthly contest" - I might
suggest that something along the lines of "document / rewrite and old concept"
would be interesting.
In a way, the fact that some things are lost / outdated / no longer work with
3.7.1-greek.number may be a benefit.

A completely lost scene or include file could be reconstructed from scratch, by
new authors, and give things a fresh start.

Older scenes, include files, and code can be cleaned up, "adequately" commented,
and written to work well with the newest stable version.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work

Certainly it would be kind and "proper" to acknowledge work done by others,
include historical notes about who made such a scene first, and other
attributions.

But, having thought about IP for a long time, it seems that there ought to be
some sort of threshold that needs to be crossed before it may be invoked, and
there certainly needs to be some limit to how long one may claim such a
protection.

IP is supposed to be a courtesy - not trammels and a straightjacket.
Do we want people to USE POV-Ray, make new scenes, and contribute to community,
inspiration, learning, and posting new renders?
People can make whatever they want, and it can be "theirs", but one guy can't
make a mirrored sphere on a blue checkered plane, and then say that the guy who
makes a sphere on a RED checkered plane has in some way "injured" him.  Or
worse, because he plugged in a certain arrangement of coefficients into the
polynomial{} directive, that he may now lay claim to every subsequent instance
of that - done by anyone, forever after.

Imagine: "I own the exclusive RIGHT to ANY x^2+Y^2+z^2 = r^2 on an alternating
<r,g,b, f, t> Ax+By+Cz+D !"


I do think that a way of collecting and indexing such things ought to be found -
it seems that something like GitHub would be a good way to do that.
Only those registered could post code or commentary.

Having some form of header that included robust version control would be an
excellent thing, considering how much continuing work goes into such tools as
the isosurface approximator, screen.inc, bordered characters, and many many
others.


Post a reply to this message

From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: 3dclouds include file
Date: 22 May 2017 03:06:25
Message: <59228df1$1@news.povray.org>
On 21-5-2017 15:29, Bald Eagle wrote:
> Le_Forgeron <jgr### [at] freefr> wrote:

>
>> I would rather like to call for a way to bring all those
>>> goodies produced over the years to the easy access of everybody
>>> interested, like the Objects Collection. I think it is a pity that so
>>> much has gone into oblivion.
>
> Indeed.   I have wondered if there were an "advanced civilization", would we
> have any [recognizable] record of/from them - everything could be on a chip the
> size, shape, and color of a grain of sand, and it could be protected / encrypted
> or otherwise obfucscated.
>
> I have seen a LOT of great ideas developed in the POV-Ray world, and it would be
> a wonderful thing to have as much of a record of that as we could.
>
>> there would be a need for some classification/keyword to help the
>> exploration, and I'm afraid that legal issue might block a bit.
>
>
https://www.ip-watch.org/2008/07/07/intellectual-property-regime-stifles-science-and-innovation-nobel-laureates-say/
>
https://www.fastcodesign.com/1669150/watch-how-ip-laws-destroy-creativity-instead-of-encouraging-it
>
>> Obviously, the Object Collection, due to licensing, is not suitable for
>> such second-hand utilities.
>> Moreover, it's outdated and hand-written.
>
>
>> I would think about something like wikimedia might be a possible
>> solution: one page per contributions, using [[category:Name]] in text to
>> put keyword.
>> And the page should provides the credit as well as much information as
>> possible.
>>
>> Protection against spamming is another problem to keep in mind.
>
> Along the same lines that I was thinking about the "monthly contest" - I might
> suggest that something along the lines of "document / rewrite and old concept"
> would be interesting.
> In a way, the fact that some things are lost / outdated / no longer work with
> 3.7.1-greek.number may be a benefit.
>
> A completely lost scene or include file could be reconstructed from scratch, by
> new authors, and give things a fresh start.
>
> Older scenes, include files, and code can be cleaned up, "adequately" commented,
> and written to work well with the newest stable version.
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Derivative_work
>
> Certainly it would be kind and "proper" to acknowledge work done by others,
> include historical notes about who made such a scene first, and other
> attributions.
>
> But, having thought about IP for a long time, it seems that there ought to be
> some sort of threshold that needs to be crossed before it may be invoked, and
> there certainly needs to be some limit to how long one may claim such a
> protection.
>
> IP is supposed to be a courtesy - not trammels and a straightjacket.
> Do we want people to USE POV-Ray, make new scenes, and contribute to community,
> inspiration, learning, and posting new renders?
> People can make whatever they want, and it can be "theirs", but one guy can't
> make a mirrored sphere on a blue checkered plane, and then say that the guy who
> makes a sphere on a RED checkered plane has in some way "injured" him.  Or
> worse, because he plugged in a certain arrangement of coefficients into the
> polynomial{} directive, that he may now lay claim to every subsequent instance
> of that - done by anyone, forever after.
>
> Imagine: "I own the exclusive RIGHT to ANY x^2+Y^2+z^2 = r^2 on an alternating
> <r,g,b, f, t> Ax+By+Cz+D !"
>
>
> I do think that a way of collecting and indexing such things ought to be found -
> it seems that something like GitHub would be a good way to do that.
> Only those registered could post code or commentary.
>
> Having some form of header that included robust version control would be an
> excellent thing, considering how much continuing work goes into such tools as
> the isosurface approximator, screen.inc, bordered characters, and many many
> others.
>
>

In calling this to the general attention, I was indeed fully aware of 
the different problems involved. They are not easy to solve I guess. 
Licensing is tricky. Many goodies were just brought to us out of 
courtesy without - I suppose - any idea of restricting their use within 
the limits of what is fair and proper like mentioning original author 
and subsequent changes, and/or a known use history, and some form of 
self-imposed use restriction. Still, there is an immense variety of 
things going from snippets of code to complete scenes and that is 
difficult to manage properly.

I am no expert on this but if knowledgeable people could assess the 
potentialities of wikimedia or github, I and many here would certainly 
be most grateful indeed.


-- 
Thomas


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From: brookville
Subject: Re: 3dclouds include file
Date: 15 Sep 2021 14:45:00
Message: <web.61423eff5c709ece732788b9236d5e37@news.povray.org>
Hi pascal - here's 3dclouds.pov I had from sascha

start pov -
//---------------------------------------------------------
#version 3.7;
global_settings{ assumed_gamma 1.0 }

camera { location <0,2,0>
direction z
up y
right x*image_width/image_height
}

plane{ y,0 texture { checker
texture { pigment { color srgb 1 }},
texture {pigment { color srgb 0 }}
} }

light_source { <0,2000,0>,1 }

sky_sphere { pigment { color srgb <0.3, 0.6,0.9> }}

#declare clouds_ambient = 2;
#declare clouds_fill = 0.6;
#include "3dclouds.inc"
//--------------------------------------------------------
-end pov


pascal <pas### [at] wanadoofr> wrote:
> On 21/05/2017 08:41, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> > On 20-5-2017 12:45, Norbert Kern wrote:
> >> Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Thanks too. That one was missing from my collection :-)
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Thomas,
> >>
> >> perhaps we should exchange our collections (I'm living in Northrhine
> >> Westphalia...)
> >>
> >> My main comps foresay for images and pov-related files about 1 to 2
> >> TB, so why
> >> not meet physically and excange (mobile) hard drives?
> >>
> >> Of course I'ld include all of my personal files too...
> >>
> >>
> >> Norbert
> >>
> >
> > Hmmm, that is more volume than I have memory to tell the truth :-) In
> > all fairness, I only collect what I /think/ I may need one day, so I
> > cannot boast to a very complete POV-Ray collection and much of it I have
> > never used. I would rather like to call for a way to bring all those
> > goodies produced over the years to the easy access of everybody
> > interested, like the Objects Collection. I think it is a pity that so
> > much has gone into oblivion.
> >
> I totally agree...
> I used to play with povray about 15 years ago...and there were plenty of
> sites, tutos etc dedicated to this. The large majority of my saved pov's
> bookmark is dead now.
> I lost the drive on which I saved all this stuff.
> And by the way...If I'd dare...I ask if someone has the Ledensky's
> "3dclouds.pov" which came with the include file ?
> Thanks in advance...
> Pascal


Post a reply to this message

From: Alain Martel
Subject: Re: 3dclouds include file
Date: 16 Sep 2021 12:18:06
Message: <61436e3e$1@news.povray.org>

> Hi pascal - here's 3dclouds.pov I had from sascha
> 
> start pov -
> //---------------------------------------------------------
> #version 3.7;
> global_settings{ assumed_gamma 1.0 }
> 
> camera { location <0,2,0>
> direction z
> up y
> right x*image_width/image_height
> }
> 
> plane{ y,0 texture { checker
> texture { pigment { color srgb 1 }},
> texture {pigment { color srgb 0 }}
> } }
> 
> light_source { <0,2000,0>,1 }
> 
> sky_sphere { pigment { color srgb <0.3, 0.6,0.9> }}
> 
> #declare clouds_ambient = 2;
> #declare clouds_fill = 0.6;
> #include "3dclouds.inc"
> //--------------------------------------------------------
> -end pov
> 
> 
srgb 1 and srgb 0 are exactly the same as rgb 1 and rgb 0.
srgb should only be used when using the colour returned from a colour 
picker.


Many peoples don't have it.


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From: pascal
Subject: Re: 3dclouds include file
Date: 17 Sep 2021 09:33:20
Message: <61449920$1@news.povray.org>

> Hi pascal - here's 3dclouds.pov I had from sascha
> 
> start pov -
> //---------------------------------------------------------
> #version 3.7;
> global_settings{ assumed_gamma 1.0 }
> 
> camera { location <0,2,0>
> direction z
> up y
> right x*image_width/image_height
> }
> 
> plane{ y,0 texture { checker
> texture { pigment { color srgb 1 }},
> texture {pigment { color srgb 0 }}
> } }
> 
> light_source { <0,2000,0>,1 }
> 
> sky_sphere { pigment { color srgb <0.3, 0.6,0.9> }}
> 
> #declare clouds_ambient = 2;
> #declare clouds_fill = 0.6;
> #include "3dclouds.inc"
> //--------------------------------------------------------
> -end pov
> 
> 

Wow ! That's four year ago !

Thank's a lot !

I join the 3dclouds.inc file for others who don't have it !

Thanks again,

Regards

Pascal


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