Thanks to all for replies and feedback
------------------------------------------------------
Nemesis/Alain:
Actually, I did try it the no-light_source way, but decided to post the version

otherwise completely flat. (POV-Ray is very much a 3-D program.)  Using

in lighting between the center and the edges obtained by deliberately putting
the light source out near the spheres. It is because of the fact that this
image is essentially a flat pattern that I would not be inclined to offer it as

for the input, which has led to a whole new vein of interesting discussion.
Welcome to the fabulous and exciting world POV-Ray discussion groups ;-)
------------------------------------------------------
Warp/Dre/DLM:
As it happens, I DID pause to consider the fairness issue in regard to posting
example code in the middle of contest, not with respect to soliciting advice,



these, collectively, offer help and advice with a value orders of magnitude

that the key to maintaining the LPV which is at the core of the fairness issue
is to see to it that helpful information about how to shorten code is made
available to EVERYONE.  My main concern is whether or not there would be
contest participants who would not know that helpful information is available
in this forum.
------------------------------------------------------
ATTENTION MR. PAUL BOURKE:
In the absence of an indication from you that such action would be unwelcome, I
shall, in a day or so, start a discussion thread dedicated to sharing tips and

things that I know and hope that others will add even better stuff.  The goal
of this action is to level the playing field by making the same information
available to everyone and generally improve the quality of images that will be
submitted.  IMHO, the contest will be better if the entries vary more according
to what sort of image creating ideas folks come up with and less according to

involved in the contest who are not regular forum readers, it would be very
much appreciated if you would let them know that this info is available.
(Perhaps you might even want to post a compilation of the results on the site.)
------------------------------------------------------
P.S.

large quantities of valuable technical advice to many people, including myself.
 If any of us wish to promote a more genial style of discourse, let us take the

probably has some of the best tips to add to the list.  ;-)

Best Regards to All,
-Mike C.

Post a reply to this message

Mike the Elder nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/11/29 09:38:

> 
> 
OK. Now, it's time to add the animation part to that WIP.

-- 
Alain
-------------------------------------------------
Tricks and treachery are the practice of fools, that don't have brains enough to 
be honest.
Benjamin Franklin

Post a reply to this message

Alain <ele### [at] netscapenet> wrote:
> Mike the Elder nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2007/11/29 09:38:

> OK. Now, it's time to add the animation part to that WIP.
>
I'm going in a whole new direction for the contest, but I did something animated
back in May that crunches down under 512 limit pretty easily (got it down to 469
without doing anything particularly clever):

http://news.povray.org/web.4641eaaf7d7f6050c40420100%40news.povray.org


I WON'T be using this (or any close variation) in the the contest because
recycling old stuff just isn't cricket - or very much fun.

Regards,
-Mike C.

Post a reply to this message

Mike the Elder wrote:

> that the key to maintaining the LPV which is at the core of the fairness issue
> is to see to it that helpful information about how to shorten code is made
> available to EVERYONE.

  I think there's a difference between generic optimization tips which
can be applied to most entries (such as "you don't need a comma between
a number and a variable"), and providing optimization tips to someone's
specific code ("in your code you can replace this with that and it will
make it 2 character shorter"). Of course what can be considered a
generic optimization principle and what can be considered code-specific
optimization is a rather fuzzy line.

Post a reply to this message

"Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message 
news:474f4215$1@news.povray.org...
> Mike the Elder wrote:

>> that the key to maintaining the LPV which is at the core of the fairness 
>> issue
>> is to see to it that helpful information about how to shorten code is 
>> made
>> available to EVERYONE.
>
>  I think there's a difference between generic optimization tips which
> can be applied to most entries (such as "you don't need a comma between
> a number and a variable"), and providing optimization tips to someone's
> specific code ("in your code you can replace this with that and it will
> make it 2 character shorter"). Of course what can be considered a
> generic optimization principle and what can be considered code-specific
> optimization is a rather fuzzy line.

I sort of agree with this, but I still think it's secondary to the contest. 
Short tricky code is nifty, but if it's a boring picture, who cares. 
Artistry and creativity still rule the roost, so to speak. Maybe my outlook 
is different that the judges though.

Post a reply to this message

Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> Once again someone posting their short code WIP and getting free
> advice from the community on how to make it shorter... Fair?

You can replace short code with SC as it already a declared variable in the
thread.  Also the "from the community" can be dropped as it is a default
implied statement :)

Post a reply to this message

"Mike the Elder" <zer### [at] wyanorg> wrote in message 
news:web.474ecec846b979c9e2b2e7080@news.povray.org...
> Warp/Dre/DLM:
> As it happens, I DID pause to consider the fairness issue in regard to 
> posting
> example code in the middle of contest, not with respect to soliciting 
> advice,
> but rather in regard disturbing the theoretical "level playing
> field"(henceforth LPV)

In the interests of the LPV (not LPF?) and those who may not be familiar 
with the short code competition,
round 5 is posted at 
http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/modelling_rendering/scc5/
This year it is a 100 frame animation with a 512 byte max.
Entrants will vote on the 'craft' of the animation.

A Chris Colefax animation primer is available at 
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/Gallery/2006/xani.htm

Reading past entries is quite instructive - TEK has been particularly 
generous in sharing his techniques. e.g.
http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/modelling_rendering/scc3/final/swokwz_l.pov
http://local.wasp.uwa.edu.au/~pbourke/modelling_rendering/scc4/final/l_nfzrtu.pov
and on this NG.

Also "Tips for Short Code Contest" was posted by Mike Kost in p.g 12 Oct 
2006
http://news.povray.org/povray.general/thread/%3C452e87f1%40news.povray.org%3E/?ttop=247562&toff=350

I still use Agustin Molina's 'Few code, many objects contest' submission in 
this NG as my 1680 x 1050 wallpaper.

DLM

Post a reply to this message

"dlm" <me### [at] addressinvalid> wrote:
> "Mike the Elder" <zer### [at] wyanorg> wrote in message
....
> > but rather in regard disturbing the theoretical "level playing
> > field"(henceforth LPV)
>
> In the interests of the LPV (not LPF?)

I vear the plain vact is that I vailed to proovread proviciently.
:o)
(Thanks for the invo.)

-Mike C.

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Warp wrote:
> dlm wrote:
>> Are you suggesting that he should pay for advice?
> 
>   I'm suggesting that it might be fairer if this was an competition
> between individuals who compete on their own merit and their own
> knowledge and experience, not a competition between group efforts
> against individuals.

The only thing is that *all* of our knowledge about POV either came from 
or has been greatly enhanced by this newsgroup.  There is no such thing 
as intrinsic POV knowledge.

I would suggest though that anytime you use a newsgroup suggestion to 
shorten your code, you be required to add a tag to the code:

//enhanced by (name)

ROFL.

Post a reply to this message

Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> dlm wrote:
> > Are you suggesting that he should pay for advice?
>
>   I'm suggesting that it might be fairer if this was an competition
> between individuals who compete on their own merit and their own
> knowledge and experience, not a competition between group efforts
> against individuals.

Fair contest? ...doesn't really make sense. I'm trying to remember a competition
that was fair. Like a field of cloned baseball players of identical ability.
Nope can't do it.

I put fair competition up with the concept of perfection, never attainable,
therfore, only a concept, not a reality, more like democratic voting. Big jabba
the Hut egos jumping on the scale while no one sees.

aQ

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