On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 17:09:45 -0400, Jim Charter wrote:

> I had always though they originated in the Star Wars movies. No?

Nope, the term at least originated with Japanese anime/manga; according to
the wikipedia article, the mecha genre started in 1956 or 1958 (two
articles have different dates) with a manga called Tetsujin 28-go that was
made into an anime in 1963 that outside of Japan was called "Gigantor".

In recalling my childhood memories of mecha, they were always bipedal, and
had a single pilot, which the Star Wars AT-AT and AT-ST didn't have.
Robotech and Macross pre-date the AT-ATs seen in Empire Strikes Back by a
couple of years as well, as does the fairly popular Gundam series.  I
can't think of anything in the original Star Wars film that came close to
being a Mech; TIE and X-Wing fighers are more closely aligned with
aeronautics than robotics, and R2D2 and C-3PO are both autonomous robots;
while in the strictest sense of the Japanese word "meka", autonomous
robots (and even electrical appliances) would fit the definition, but the
definition of the genre is a bit more constrained than the general word
usage.

Jim

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Surely HG Wells 1898 classic 'War of the Worlds' takes the prize for 
granddaddy of the genre with his tripedal alien mecha?
See e.g. http://www.stellabooks.com/images/hgwells/war_of_worlds.jpg
DLM

"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message 
news:pan### [at] nospamcom...
> On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 17:09:45 -0400, Jim Charter wrote:
>
>> I had always though they originated in the Star Wars movies. No?
>
> Nope, the term at least originated with Japanese anime/manga; according to
> the wikipedia article, the mecha genre started in 1956 or 1958 (two
> articles have different dates) with a manga called Tetsujin 28-go that was
> made into an anime in 1963 that outside of Japan was called "Gigantor".
>
> In recalling my childhood memories of mecha, they were always bipedal, and
> had a single pilot, which the Star Wars AT-AT and AT-ST didn't have.
> Robotech and Macross pre-date the AT-ATs seen in Empire Strikes Back by a
> couple of years as well, as does the fairly popular Gundam series.  I
> can't think of anything in the original Star Wars film that came close to
> being a Mech; TIE and X-Wing fighers are more closely aligned with
> aeronautics than robotics, and R2D2 and C-3PO are both autonomous robots;
> while in the strictest sense of the Japanese word "meka", autonomous
> robots (and even electrical appliances) would fit the definition, but the
> definition of the genre is a bit more constrained than the general word
> usage.
>
> Jim

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On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 18:36:12 -0400, dlm wrote:

> Surely HG Wells 1898 classic 'War of the Worlds' takes the prize for
> granddaddy of the genre with his tripedal alien mecha? See e.g.
> http://www.stellabooks.com/images/hgwells/war_of_worlds.jpg DLM

Well, the mecha I've seen in the genre tend to be bipedal; but all I see
there is cover art, in the story 'The War of the Worlds', several
different types of machines are described (a shield that later becomes the
first of the tripedal machines), and a larger version ("higher than many
houses").

Certainly a case could be made that the device might be manned, but I
can't find anything in a quick scan of the text that says it is (or isn't).

While I'm far from an expert in what would constitue a Mecha, the genre
seems defined in terms of Anime and Manga, and little else.

Jim

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Orchid XP v2 nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2005-06-02 14:54:
> Just out of curiosity... what *is* a "mech"? Seem to be quite a few 
> posts on this NG that mention them.
In the present case, a mech is a shorthand for "Mechwarior" in a game named
Battletech.
They are gient, piloted, vaguely humanoid battle machines. Most are bipedal, but some
are 
quadrupedal. They are equiped with a variety of SF weapons like laser and particle
pulse beams. They 
can also have rockets, some canons and possibly machin guns. One is even equiped with
a mighty axe!
The original game was played with pen, paper and miniatures. There exist some
computer, real time 
adaptations.

Alain

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In article <429fa29c$1@news.povray.org>, ele### [at] netscapenet 
says...
> Orchid XP v2 nous apporta ses lumieres en ce 2005-06-02 14:54:
> > Just out of curiosity... what *is* a "mech"? Seem to be quite a few 
> > posts on this NG that mention them.
> In the present case, a mech is a shorthand for "Mechwarior" in a game named
Battletech.
> They are gient, piloted, vaguely humanoid battle machines. Most are bipedal, but
some are 
> quadrupedal. They are equiped with a variety of SF weapons like laser and particle
pulse beams. They 
> can also have rockets, some canons and possibly machin guns. One is even equiped
with a mighty axe!
> The original game was played with pen, paper and miniatures. There exist some
computer, real time 
> adaptations.
> 
Some, from the perspective of the original RPG rules 'bad' adaptations. 
Always annoyed us back when I played it that not only did they never 
provide a simulation to 'test' custom designs, but that even if they did 
the simulations would be worthless, since in all the early games all you 
had to do to take out an opponent was blow its legs off. In the RPG this 
would be like rolling twelve dice and getting all sixes. lol The rules of 
the RPG didn't even allow for specifically targeted shots unless it was 
using a special targeting computer *and* you where aiming at the center 
torso.

But, we did have a nice program for making customs. I managed to make one 
that had sufficient heat dissipation and weapons that a targeted shot at 
the center torso of the biggest mech would strip away 95% of the armor in 
one shot, assuming the other mech was even fully armored. The only time I 
got to test it in a sort of arena battle the enemy outnumbered us 15 to 
one. They built a lot of fast light mechs, while we had five each of 
heavy ones and lots of fire power. By the time they came close enough to 
hit them easy they had taken out 6-7 of the 15 we had and there was 
'still' another wave of their side no yet on the map. It was very 
embarrassing. lol But man, if I have 'ever' gotten a decent shot at the 
enemy, I could have taken those light weight 10-20 ton mechs out in 
single shots, even without precise targeting.

-- 
void main () {

    call functional_code()
  else
    call crash_windows();
}

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Yuri Hikado spake:

> This is a model of Iron Wind Metal's reseen Marauder miniature for Classic
> Battletech. The model is almost fully posable, with variables set at the
> top for ease of use.
> 
> Trees made with POV-Tree 1.5
> 
> Buildings from http://www.battletech-movie.com/ converted in POV-Ray

Wowie...

-- 
Stefan Viljoen
Software Support Technician / Programmer
Polar Design Solutions

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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> schreef in bericht
news:pan### [at] nospamcom...
> On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 18:36:12 -0400, dlm wrote:
>
>
> Certainly a case could be made that the device might be manned, but I
> can't find anything in a quick scan of the text that says it is (or
isn't).
>
Yes, they are manned. I seem to remember a scene where one is shot down and
the martian inside revealed.

Thomas

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On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 08:55:33 +0200, Thomas de Groot wrote:

> Yes, they are manned. I seem to remember a scene where one is shot down
> and the martian inside revealed.

I'll have to reread it - got a copy here on my desk as well as it being
available through Project Gutenberg.

Jim

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"Jim Henderson" <nos### [at] nospamcom> wrote in message 
news:pan### [at] nospamcom...
> On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 08:55:33 +0200, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>
>> Yes, they are manned. I seem to remember a scene where one is shot down
>> and the martian inside revealed.
>
> I'll have to reread it - got a copy here on my desk as well as it being
> available through Project Gutenberg.
>
> Jim

The mechs were piloted by Martians.
You'll find it in chapter 4 e.g.
"  I looked up and saw the lower surface of a handling-machine coming slowly 
across the hole.  One of its gripping limbs curled amid the debris; another 
limb appeared, feeling its way over the fallen beams. I stood petrified, 
staring.  Then I saw through a sort of glass plate near the edge of the body 
the face, as we may call it, and the large dark eyes of a Martian, peering, 
and then a long metallic snake of tentacle came feeling slowly through the 
hole."
http://www.gutenberg.org/dirs/3/36/36.txt

DLM

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On Fri, 03 Jun 2005 09:24:16 -0400, dlm wrote:

> The mechs were piloted by Martians.
> You'll find it in chapter 4 e.g.

Ah, yes, I did read that passage and somehow still missed that the first
time around.  That's what I get for skimming.

Jim

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