On 30-7-2013 21:14, Stephen wrote:
> On 30/07/2013 7:54 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
>> Indeed Michael, this /is/ a Komodo dragon :-)
>
> I have only seen a Komodo dragon once and this one looks too happy. o_O
>
>  From what I was told by its keeper. They are really bad tempered and
> show it. Yours looks quite amicable. :-)

ROFL You made my day Stephen. But why deny happiness to those poor 
creatures? ;-)

This makes me think about how we humans unconsciously (and erroneously) 
project on animals our own attitudes. The /smiling/ chimp is a good example.

Thomas

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Am 31.07.2013 09:12, schrieb Thomas de Groot:

> This makes me think about how we humans unconsciously (and erroneously)
> project on animals our own attitudes. The /smiling/ chimp is a good
> example.

Indeed. Never trust a chimp that shows its teeth. (Unless it's only the 
upper ones, that is.)

Cats and smiles is an interesting story, too. Did you know that cats 
actually "smile" at each other by closing their eyes?

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On 31-7-2013 10:14, clipka wrote:
> Cats and smiles is an interesting story, too. Did you know that cats
> actually "smile" at each other by closing their eyes?
>

Of course I do! I have been a long-time cat owner! Or more truthfully I 
should say, I have been owned by cats. :-)

Applying it helps to make friends with cats too.

Thomas

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Am 31.07.2013 13:42, schrieb Thomas de Groot:
> On 31-7-2013 10:14, clipka wrote:
>> Cats and smiles is an interesting story, too. Did you know that cats
>> actually "smile" at each other by closing their eyes?
>
> Of course I do! I have been a long-time cat owner! Or more truthfully I
> should say, I have been owned by cats. :-)

The latter goes without saying. There's no such thing as a cat owner.

> Applying it helps to make friends with cats too.

|-)

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On 31-7-2013 14:13, clipka wrote:
> Am 31.07.2013 13:42, schrieb Thomas de Groot:
>> On 31-7-2013 10:14, clipka wrote:
>>> Cats and smiles is an interesting story, too. Did you know that cats
>>> actually "smile" at each other by closing their eyes?
>>
>> Of course I do! I have been a long-time cat owner! Or more truthfully I
>> should say, I have been owned by cats. :-)

>
> The latter goes without saying. There's no such thing as a cat owner.

That is why I prefer cats over dogs. I like arguing with them on an 
equal basis ;-)

>
>> Applying it helps to make friends with cats too.
>
> |-)
>
And I forgot to say: when they are willing of course.

Thomas

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 30-7-2013 21:14, Stephen wrote:
> > On 30/07/2013 7:54 AM, Thomas de Groot wrote:
> >> Indeed Michael, this /is/ a Komodo dragon :-)
> >
> > I have only seen a Komodo dragon once and this one looks too happy. o_O
> >
> >  From what I was told by its keeper. They are really bad tempered and
> > show it. Yours looks quite amicable. :-)
>
> ROFL You made my day Stephen. But why deny happiness to those poor
> creatures? ;-)
>

Maybe it is saying to the other,



> This makes me think about how we humans unconsciously (and erroneously)
> project on animals our own attitudes. The /smiling/ chimp is a good example.
>

How true, although animals can have emotions similar to ours.
About the same time that I saw the Komodo dragon (I was working in a zoo). I was
with a keeper who was feeding Fairy Penguins. I said that they looked
affectionate but she told me that it was just greed. Wallabies exhibited similar
behavior, they would let people stroke them hoping for food.

Stephen

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clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:

> Cats and smiles is an interesting story, too. Did you know that cats
> actually "smile" at each other by closing their eyes?

I did not know that but since you mention it. I can see all those smiling cats
that I have known.

Stephen

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On 31-7-2013 16:11, Stephen wrote:

> Maybe it is saying to the other,


That may well be true.

>
>
>> This makes me think about how we humans unconsciously (and erroneously)
>> project on animals our own attitudes. The /smiling/ chimp is a good example.
>>
>
> How true, although animals can have emotions similar to ours.
> About the same time that I saw the Komodo dragon (I was working in a zoo). I was
> with a keeper who was feeding Fairy Penguins. I said that they looked
> affectionate but she told me that it was just greed. Wallabies exhibited similar
> behavior, they would let people stroke them hoping for food.

I think that we often misinterpret their emotions into human 
equivalents, except for those basic ones like pain and fear. Like you 
tell, affective behaviour to get food for instance. Cats can gladly give 
you all the affection of the world, but only in fair exchange of safety, 
warmth, food, a welcome lap for a little nap. Not necessarily in that 
order. And they can make you feel stupid too.

Thomas

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 31-7-2013 16:11, Stephen wrote:
>
> > Maybe it is saying to the other,

>
> That may well be true.
>
> >
> >
> >> This makes me think about how we humans unconsciously (and erroneously)
> >> project on animals our own attitudes. The /smiling/ chimp is a good example.
> >>
> >
> > How true, although animals can have emotions similar to ours.
> > About the same time that I saw the Komodo dragon (I was working in a zoo). I was
> > with a keeper who was feeding Fairy Penguins. I said that they looked
> > affectionate but she told me that it was just greed. Wallabies exhibited similar
> > behavior, they would let people stroke them hoping for food.
>
> I think that we often misinterpret their emotions into human
> equivalents, except for those basic ones like pain and fear. Like you
> tell, affective behaviour to get food for instance. Cats can gladly give
> you all the affection of the world, but only in fair exchange of safety,
> warmth, food, a welcome lap for a little nap. Not necessarily in that
> order. And they can make you feel stupid too.
>
> Thomas

Yes, that is true. To close your eyes to a cat is simply to say "I love you" or
better "I trust you" to the little beast. I'm hosted by three of them...

Best regads,
Michael

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> As far as belly dragging is concerned, reptiles lift their belly when
> active, even crocodiles do. The reptiles from the Permian are often
> pictured in an erect pose (Lystrosaurus, Moschops for instance); see
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AHJDejFGDwk. I am not too sure if that is
> their most common pose considering their anatomy, but there it is.

Lystrosaurus and mostrops are both therapsids, which is the line that evolved
into mammals.  An erect posture would make sense.

(Therapsids dominated the mid to late Permian.  I have heard the Permian called
the "First Age of Mammals.")

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