On 26-3-2013 11:21, Paolo Gibellini wrote:
> In ancient cities debris and backfill land where the cause of the
> gradually raising of the ground level and such situations was not so
> unusual.

That is true. However, they (re)built on the remains. We are here at the 
contemporaneous living level of the town so the streets should be 
horizontal and doors fully open to them ;-)

> In my town the old opening of the ancient Dome is at least 4 meters
> under the present entrance.

Absolutely! There may be similar examples in Gancaloon too.

Thomas

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Thomas de Groot wrote:

If I understand this correctly you already have the entrance
somewhat elevated so if the house is high enough it will simply
show a bit of stairs. You could also associate "inverse" stairs
with the house that get differenced away from the street, so
the door will be partially below ground level but accessible.

Reminds me of Copenhagen: many building had this sort of half-
submerged floor. Our stay coincided with the strongest rainfall
since 30 years, and most of them were completely flooded.

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On 26-3-2013 14:46, Christian Froeschlin wrote:
> If I understand this correctly you already have the entrance
> somewhat elevated so if the house is high enough it will simply
> show a bit of stairs. You could also associate "inverse" stairs
> with the house that get differenced away from the street, so
> the door will be partially below ground level but accessible.

The visible stairs are 'below' normal ground level as doors are 
positioned at y=0. Differencing is not impossible, but very complex in 
this context as it involves the height_field of the city, which is 
needed to trace the houses, which are needed to difference the 
height_field. See what I mean? :-)  And still, for people to be able to 
walk comfortably and drive carts along, the surface needs at least to be 
close to horizontal. I think my solution is the easiest so far (for me).

>
> Reminds me of Copenhagen: many building had this sort of half-
> submerged floor. Our stay coincided with the strongest rainfall
> since 30 years, and most of them were completely flooded.

As Paolo said, old cities often have those sunken floors, for different 
reasons.

Thomas

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Christian Froeschlin <chr### [at] chrfrde> wrote:
> Reminds me of Copenhagen: many building had this sort of half-
> submerged floor. Our stay coincided with the strongest rainfall
> since 30 years, and most of them were completely flooded.

Interesting.  In the downtown shopping district of St. Thomas, the sidewalk, and
hence the store entrances, sometimes drop below street level; or more
accurately, the street rises above the sidewalk level.  The city was built by
the Danish in the late 1600s.  The downtown area is a narrow, two block wide
strip sandwiched between the harbor and the mountains.

The story I heard is that the king of Denmark wanted nice American-style grids
for its colonial cities.  This worked out nicely on St. Croix; however, St.
Thomas is not Denmark, so we've now got streets headed straight up the
mountains, turning into long outdoor staircases when the terrain is too steep.

I doubt that the shops are especially flood-prone, as there are news reports of
other parts of the islands flooding, but I never hear it of downtown Charlotte
Amalie (the city in St. Thomas).  It may be that, although the stores are below
street level one block inland, they are level with the waterfront, so the water
does not pool.  The worst flooding during my lifetime occurred while I was
living off-island, so I don't know how the shops coped; however, when the whole
city is under water, I don't think it matters much where your floor is in
relation to the street.  I was here for a deluge of 8 inches (20 cm) in 4 hours
in 1996, but all the floodwaters had drained by the next day.  (When you're on a
rock sticking out of the sea, rainwater doesn't stick around.  Storm surges are
a different matter.)

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On 26-3-2013 20:07, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> Christian Froeschlin <chr### [at] chrfrde> wrote:
>> Reminds me of Copenhagen: many building had this sort of half-
>> submerged floor. Our stay coincided with the strongest rainfall
>> since 30 years, and most of them were completely flooded.
>
> Interesting.  In the downtown shopping district of St. Thomas, the sidewalk, and
> hence the store entrances, sometimes drop below street level; or more
> accurately, the street rises above the sidewalk level.  The city was built by
> the Danish in the late 1600s.  The downtown area is a narrow, two block wide
> strip sandwiched between the harbor and the mountains.
>

In some cases, and I think Amsterdam too, the cellar areas beneath the 
houses were used as store rooms, kitchens, or shops. In epochs without 
fridges ;-)  that had certain advantages for food although the dampness 
probably was huge (well, depending on the areas of course). Only later, 
especially in the 19th century with the industrialisation, those cellar 
floors also became the living quarters for the very poor.

So, there are these examples, and those mentioned by Paolo, where debris 
filling gradually elevated the city level.

Thomas

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> The advantage of the urbanism macro is that even at close up the scenes
> are looking good, like in this image.
>
> However...
>
> Thomas

That is a great view, fantastic to have been generated by a macro. You need to
add some dust/dirt to the floors to add more realism, should be easy to do ;-)

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Thomas de Groot <tho### [at] degrootorg> wrote:
> On 26-3-2013 9:59, Thomas de Groot wrote:

>
> My solution is to create a street surface related to the highest side of
> the street, extending enough over the other side to enable the trace()
> function to place the houses there at the correct level.
>

These are really nice views of your city!

I assume that you *do* want sloping streets(?) They look very natural like that,
IMO. So if I understand the problem correctly, the sides of the buildings that
are lower down on the slope are being 'buried', while the sides with the steps
and the door are looking too high (that is, the steps etc. are ending before
they reach the ground.)

Although I don't know the method you are using to trace() the buildings onto the
ground (if indeed that *is* the method you're using), it seems to me that the
trace for each building should be done at all four corners--four traces, in
order to get the *highest* of the four. Then, that elevation would be the one to
place the building at. And along with that idea, the buildings/steps etc. would
need to be built so that they *always* extend farther into -y. Most of the time,
that extra building depth would not be seen--it would be underneath the
ground--but in situations such as in your example scene, it would show up and
look natural. (Yes, there would be *lots* of steps, depending on the ground
slope--but that might look quite nice.) I'm thinking that the 'extra' building
depth (and steps) should be deep enough in -y to compensate for, say, a 45-deg.
ground slope(!) as a maximum. Or maybe 35-40 deg.

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On 27-3-2013 23:22, Kenneth wrote:
> These are really nice views of your city!

Thanks Kenneth.

>
> I assume that you *do* want sloping streets(?) They look very natural like that,
> IMO. So if I understand the problem correctly, the sides of the buildings that
> are lower down on the slope are being 'buried', while the sides with the steps
> and the door are looking too high (that is, the steps etc. are ending before
> they reach the ground.)

The 'only' problem is the /sidewise/ slope of the street surface, if I 
make myself clear. So, in any case, that surface has to be corrected, 
otherwise carts will turn over :-)

>
> Although I don't know the method you are using to trace() the buildings onto the
> ground (if indeed that *is* the method you're using), it seems to me that the
> trace for each building should be done at all four corners--four traces, in
> order to get the *highest* of the four. Then, that elevation would be the one to
> place the building at.

I only trace the centre point of the buildings, which obviously is too 
few a test to use on highly uneven surfaces. Your suggestion is good, 
however an extra test would be needed: Depending on which /side/ of the 
street the building is to be situated (high or low end) the /lowest/ or 
the /highest/ test should be selected. Now, I assume that I can know 
this by testing the height of the nearest street boundary to the 
building... Hmm. I have to test this to see how that works.

> And along with that idea, the buildings/steps etc. would
> need to be built so that they *always* extend farther into -y.

They already do ;-)

> Most of the time,
> that extra building depth would not be seen--it would be underneath the
> ground--but in situations such as in your example scene, it would show up and
> look natural. (Yes, there would be *lots* of steps, depending on the ground
> slope--but that might look quite nice.) I'm thinking that the 'extra' building
> depth (and steps) should be deep enough in -y to compensate for, say, a 45-deg.
> ground slope(!) as a maximum. Or maybe 35-40 deg.

Indeed. Still, as I said above, the street surface should not slope too 
much laterally in order to be useful. There still is the need for a 
/built/ street surface...

Thomas

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On 27-3-2013 18:28, s.day wrote:
> That is a great view, fantastic to have been generated by a macro. You need to
> add some dust/dirt to the floors to add more realism, should be easy to do ;-)

Yes, it is even looking better than I expected. In addition to dust, I 
need also to diversify a bit more the house types. Also easy to do and 
only needing a little adaptation of the macro.

Thomas

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s.day wrote:

> That is a great view, fantastic to have been generated by a macro. 

yes indeed. I think it needs an export to some game
engine terrain system that you can walk around in it ;)

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