Jim Charter wrote:

>Greg M. Johnson wrote:
>> But the hair doesn't look like that on an old monkey.
>> Perhaps it needs specular.
>>
>>
>
> I adopted your three-sided, segmented mesh
> technique to build the hair.
>

While I have put a mesh macro out there, but I'm too much of a realist not
to believe you're made a misattribution.


Greg M. Johnson.

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Tim Nikias v2.0 wrote:
> With Wings3D, eh? I've been fiddling around with that modeller lately as
> well, simply because I want to get some experience on modelling. Won't go
> very far professionally if I don't do some mesh-modelling and just stick to
> POV-Ray's CSG and script-based meshes. Not that I really want to become a
> pro in that area, but you never know...

Cool.  Well obviously some people have worked hard to put mesh support 
in POV.  So why not model mesh and render in POV?  Modellers used to be 
expensive and hard to find but not so anymore.  Seems they are 
everywhere now.  They must be teaching how to do that in Computer 
Science school these days.  Actually I also find the idea of doing still 
life with csg and procedural textures also very compelling.  But when 
Wings came on the scene I was getting into some complicated transparent 
textures which took a long time to render and often crashed my machine.
Modelling in Wings was faster and didn't crash as much and I have a long 
time interest in the figure art tradition anyway.  It is fascinating how 
the world of commercial illustration has completely coopted that 
tradition and now with computer animation is having its day in the sun.
Its presence is hard to ignore and while some amateurs are taking some 
interesting directions, the whole hobbiest thing seems to be basically 
riffing on the directions the commercial world takes.

> 
> Anyway, do you have any good links where they explain a little about
> modelling? 

The tutorials thread on the Wings forums is a good starting point.
http://pub161.ezboard.com/fnendowingsmiraifrm7
Let me emphasize 'starting point' not 'end point'.  I used to go there 
with no purpose in particular except that I wanted to study modelling 
and I'd start linking around.  I found it at least as effective as 
google searching

There is a modelling forum at CGTalk
http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?s=614386f96e8a33186aeee9460ae3f376&forumid=25
also a Wings / Blender forum there that has a couple of "tutorials" threads
http://www.cgtalk.com/forumdisplay.php?s=614386f96e8a33186aeee9460ae3f376&forumid=83&pagenumber=1&sortfield=lastpost&sortorder=desc&daysprune=100&x=10&y=14
I found the boards at CGTalk to be pretty lively and the talent that 
shows up for their "challenges" looks pretty good to me.  There is a 
moderator over there, Leigh van der Byl
http://leigh.cgcommunity.com/
who's a lot of fun.  Wears body jewellery and gets the boys all stirred 
up.  She's a poly-by-poly modeller by comparison

There is also a Wings forum at Renderosity
http://www.renderosity.com/forums.ez?Form.sess_id=3655170&Form.sess_key=1062811609

As far as actual tutorials, I am very stingy with my time I guess.  I 
only really studied this tutorial.  Wiro contributes to CGTalk also. 
This tut gives you a pretty coherent set of mechanics and also keeps in 
site the higher purpose of creating form.  But again, my specific 
interest is in organic subjects.
http://www.secondreality.ch/tutorials/modelling/head.html

Famously there is this link:
http://cube.phlatt.net/forums/spiraloid/index.php

It's not just that Bay Raitt shows up.  It's also that it tries to treat 
modelling, or what they call "digital sculpting" as a study in itself. 
And further, what they mean by it is what is commonly called "box 
modelling" which is to start with a primative, usually a "box" and 
selectively cut the faces to create your shape, always keeping the major 
volumes in mind. This technique resonates with me because it seems 
related to classical drawing techniques that I've always studied and 
admired. ( Find the major plane break, then the secondary plane breaks 
and so on ). This technique is championed by Raitt (along with some talk 
about "edge loops" which I still don't get), and is a technique that 
Wings is particularily adapted for.  Wings, as you know, must always 
produce closed, volumetric meshes with no open edged polys.  Wings' 
fairly stripped down tool set is oriented to face cutting and extruding. 
  Further more Wings is written to resemble Mirai, a tool that as I 
understand it, Raitt has some involvement with developing.  I have even 
seen him show up on the Wings boards and offer Bjorn some encouragement. 
  So Wings does seem to have some congruence with the commercial world.

> 
> PS: Attached one of my first feeble attempts. :-)
> 
> 

I remember seeing that tutorial I think ;)  Nice job.
If you keep it up, I think there is only good news for you.  I have 
found that I have progressed even though I took a long hiatus from it 
back when I was writing my little irtc 'reviews'.  When I tried 
modelling figures for Gena's Capriccio project I sort of hit a wall. 
But I'm seeing some gradual prgress.  You will too.
-Jim

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"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote in message
news:4004b17d$1@news.povray.org...
> Greg M. Johnson wrote:
> > Breathtaking, 'cept the hair just isn't right for an actual
silverback....

> Yes you are right.  It is actually based on a chimp and the hair should
> be black, and the skin a kind of dirty pumpkin yellow.

Actually only old chimpanzee have that dirty pumpkin yellow colored skin.
Youg ones tend to have a pink purple orange thing going on ^___^
But humans too tend to have a dirty pumpkin yellow color after a good case
of lever problems ^___^

Jean-luc: Well, yes I know but are you sure that thing was nuclear?

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"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote in message
news:4004b556$1@news.povray.org...
> Jean-luc Songa Butera wrote:
> > Judging by the ears and the shape of the back of the head I would rather
say
> > it's a chimpanze ^___^

> Obviously you know your primates.

After so many years watching myself in the mirror I cas safely say that I
have a good eye for spotting them ^___^

> I was working from a fairly lousy b/w
> photo (of a chimp) that I found on the web, but I finally went to a
> second hand bookstore to see if I could find some better pictures.
> Particularily of the eyes and skin color.  Anyway I found a nice little
> picture book featuring chimps, baboons, and gorillas mostly.  So I am
> learning to discriminate.

Or use the old recycling trick:
Take a human head mesh
Move forward the lower part of its face
Widen the back of the jaw bone
Smash its nose up into its skull
Compress the back of its skull to lose 60% of its volume
and... You should have something in the line of a primate mesh.
Side note: Do NEVER do that to a real human model, it seems that there are
laws that forbit it ^___^

Jean-luc: I didn't know that the big red button was to destroy everything!

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gregjohn wrote:

> Jim Charter wrote:
> 
> 
>>Greg M. Johnson wrote:
>>
>>>But the hair doesn't look like that on an old monkey.
>>>Perhaps it needs specular.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>I adopted your three-sided, segmented mesh
>>technique to build the hair.
>>
> 
> 
> While I have put a mesh macro out there, but I'm too much of a realist not
> to believe you're made a misattribution.
> 
> 
> Greg M. Johnson.
> 
> 
Oops, it was Doug Eichenburg.  Thanks Greg, sorry Doug.

You're both young guys, super technicians doing edgy stuff and live 
somewhere in that upstate direction.

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"Jim Charter" <jrc### [at] msncom> wrote in message
news:400485b8@news.povray.org...
> There is more wrong with this than right,

Ummm...  Yeah, whatever... ;-)

Amazing work, Jim!  This is breath-taking, in my opinion.

I would like to hear more elaboration on how you did the hair, and how CPU
and memory intensive it was, etc., if you wouldn't mind.

-- 
Jeremy
www.beantoad.com

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> Did you do the "dog house" tutorial in the Wings3d manual? It probably
> taught me most of what I had to know about modelling in Wings.

Nope, didn't, but now I'll do it once I get the time, if you say it's
useful, it should be... Just today I attempted (and failed) at a head, but I
wasn't expecting much. It was merely gathering experience with the handling
and all, though the result doesn't look too bad (but not really good either
:-).

Regards,
Tim

-- 
"Tim Nikias v2.0"
Homepage: <http://www.nolights.de>
Email: tim.nikias (@) nolights.de

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"Gilles Tran" <tra### [at] inapginrafr> wrote in message
news:40054c73@news.povray.org...

> Did you do the "dog house" tutorial in the Wings3d manual? It probably
> taught me most of what I had to know about modelling in Wings.
>
Thanks for the nudge, Giles.  That's high praise, coming from you.

Rich

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In article <4004ab32$1@news.povray.org>, bs1### [at] skynetbe 
says...
> "Greg M. Johnson" <gregj;-)565### [at] aolcom> wrote in message
> news:4004a73b$1@news.povray.org...
> > Breathtaking, 'cept the hair just isn't right for an actual silverback....
> 
> Judging by the ears and the shape of the back of the head I would rather say
> it's a chimpanze 

I'd guess a chimp of some sort, but I can't say whether it's Pan pan, or 
Pan troglodytes.

More likely the latter, of advanced years ;)

Jamie.

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great modelling forum:
http://cube.phlatt.net/forums/spiraloid/index.php

Tim Nikias v2.0 wrote:

> Anyway, do you have any good links where they explain a little about
> modelling? This model looks awesome compared to what I'm fiddling around
> with, but so far, I couldn't find any good tutorials explaining some basics,
> but maybe I've used the wrong keywords...

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