Gena wrote:

> I could help you to make heightfield for that sculpture group on the
> portal if you could give me the dimensions of that triangle.


I have started with the towers, so I don't have the precise dimensions 
of the tympanon yet.

BTW, do you have a better image of the painting, than the 400x500 I have 
from www.tate.co.uk? I would like to know, what time the clock shows. :)

/Ib

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Ib Rasmussen wrote:

> BTW, do you have a better image of the painting, than the 400x500 I have
> from www.tate.co.uk? I would like to know, what time the clock shows. :)

I don't want to start here a long thread about copyright issues but it's
always
confusing to me what is legal and what is illegal. At the beginning of the
book which I use and which has that 'Capriccio' original painting I read
that it's prohibited to reproduce pictures from that book in any form
without publisher's permission. So my obvious questions are:
- can I reproduce the image for non-commercial purposes or not? For example
  can I post it in this newsgroup?
- can I reproduce the fragment of that image (though that copyright
statement
   also says 'any part of the book') for non-commercial purposes.
Any insight in this everlasting copyright issues would be very helpful.

Gena.

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Gena wrote:

> - can I reproduce the image for non-commercial purposes or not? For example
>   can I post it in this newsgroup?


I have this idea, that copyright only covers commercial use, but I'm no 
lawyer. However, I am sure, that there is nothing that forbids you to 
read the clock of the painting, if possible, and post the time here, 
which is all I need.

/Ib

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Gena wrote:
> 
> I don't want to start here a long thread about copyright issues but it's
> always
> confusing to me what is legal and what is illegal. At the beginning of the
> book which I use and which has that 'Capriccio' original painting I read
> that it's prohibited to reproduce pictures from that book in any form
> without publisher's permission. So my obvious questions are:
> - can I reproduce the image for non-commercial purposes or not? For example
>   can I post it in this newsgroup?
> - can I reproduce the fragment of that image (though that copyright
> statement
>    also says 'any part of the book') for non-commercial purposes.
> Any insight in this everlasting copyright issues would be very helpful.

What the pubisher writes in the book about it is quite irrelevant but you
are not allowed to reproduce any part of it without the
pubisher's/author's permission.  There is one exception with 'citations' 
but this of course does not cover images.  These basic rules should be
valid worldwide.

This all of course is only relevant for publishing the reproduction. 
Posting in the newsgroup falls under this.  Commercial or not does not
matter.   The point about fragments of an image would only be that the
publisher could only sue you for the loss he suffers because of your
unauthorized reproduction.  There would hardly be any loss for him when
you only show a small part.  

In any case the whole thing is somewhat pointless since the image itself
is no more copyrighted probably and therefore you could just go to Tate
and take a photo if you want (they probably don't allow taking photos but
they could do nothing more than expel you when you do it anyway).  

My advice: Put the image on a webserver and restrict access and give the
password to those working on the project.  AFAIK this would be
non-problematic in terms of copyright in most countries.

As a side note: we recently had a much disputed change of copyright law in
germany which allowes this concept (i.e. reproduction of copyrighted
material to a restricted number of people, like in an university's
intranet) to a large extent.

Christoph

-- 
POV-Ray tutorials, include files, Sim-POV,
HCR-Edit and more: http://www.tu-bs.de/~y0013390/
Last updated 28 Feb. 2003 _____./\/^>_*_<^\/\.______

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Surely its the original painting you are looking at?  How old is the
painting?  It is only so long that a painting remains in copyright before it
becomes "public domain"?

It would be an amazing court appearance to watch them trying to sue for
copyright on an painting that they do not own the copyright for.
But here is where it gets complicated.  Is it the Photograph that they have
copyrighted?

I would suggest trying to find images floating around on the net that don't
have a copyright notice atattched to it.  Especially the museum or gallery
that it is housed in.  They may have a site.  Publicity about the painting
can have a funny effect on values so they tend not to be too fussy about you
using the image.   Think of the Mona Lisa... you see that reproduced almost
everwhere!  Look at its value because of its high profile.

Or you could always seek the author/publishers approval and offer to "plug"
their book.  Hey you never know other POV artists might go out and buy it to
try and reproduce other works in the book.  ;)

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Christoph Hormann wrote:

> In any case the whole thing is somewhat pointless since the image itself
> is no more copyrighted probably and therefore you could just go to Tate
> and take a photo if you want (they probably don't allow taking photos but
> they could do nothing more than expel you when you do it anyway).

That's right. The painting itself is not copyrighted anymore (it happens after
70 or 100 years as far as I remember). But the reproduction in the book is
copyrighted.

> My advice: Put the image on a webserver and restrict access and give the
> password to those working on the project.  AFAIK this would be
> non-problematic in terms of copyright in most countries.

Unfortunetly I don't have such resources.

Gena.

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Aaron wrote:

> But here is where it gets complicated.  Is it the Photograph that they have
> copyrighted?

Exactly.

> I would suggest trying to find images floating around on the net that don't
> have a copyright notice atattched to it.  Especially the museum or gallery
> that it is housed in.  They may have a site.

I tried but found only reproduction on web-site of  Tate Gallery. As a
rule all reproductions on museum web sites are copyrighted as well. So
you cannot use it :) Though you can always provide the link :)

> Or you could always seek the author/publishers approval and offer to "plug"
> their book.  Hey you never know other POV artists might go out and buy it to
> try and reproduce other works in the book.  ;)

I've read that it's not so difficult to get such permission for non-commercial
use
although sometimes they will ask for some symbolic fee. It's just boring :(

Gena.

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> > But here is where it gets complicated.  Is it the Photograph that they
have
> > copyrighted?
>
> Exactly.

Then the question arrises are you making new art based on old art as a
reference?  I mean you are only looking at the photographs for inspiration
to create your own modern art.  I don't think you will be able to make a
perfect reproduction and that probably isn't your aim.

This is indeed the problem.  The eternal question of "What is Art?".

Can you tell I tagged along to art theory lectures that my mother attended
when in art school?

It isn't like you are copying the photographs and selling them.


On a completely different tack.  I would love to see a stereographic
representation of this image.  A sense of extra depth would be wonderful.
:)

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Ib Rasmussen wrote:

> lawyer. However, I am sure, that there is nothing that forbids you to
> read the clock of the painting, if possible, and post the time here,
> which is all I need.

12:50

Gena.

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See the reply I made to Gena in p.b.s-f., subject line Capriccio v.12, for
an attachment of the INI file I'm using for use with that scene file. Has
several resolutions and qualities, and adjusted to match common screen
resolutions (vertical part).

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