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From: Harold Baize
Subject: Re: stereogram anyone? 51kbu
Date: 13 Jan 2000 18:35:27
Message: <387e613f@news.povray.org>
Sigmund Kyrre Aas <as### [at] studntnuno> wrote in message
news:387E5AB6.1772ADD6@stud.ntnu.no...
> Harold Baize wrote:

> Don't be. The camera separation would be the same :) Here's my cam:
> camera {
>    #local L=28;
>    #local Pos=<-45 , 12 ,-30>*.7;
>    location  Pos + vnormalize(vcross(Pos,y))*clock
>    look_at   <0, 0 , -2>
>    angle degrees(atan2(35,L))
> }

Whoa, hecka complex camera statement. Guess I'm still thinking with a
POV 1.0 camera syntax.

> The target is at <0,0,0> and it's normal is -x. On closer inspection,
> the camera distance is 39 units and the target radius is 15, so the "one
> unit for every 30 units" rule is actually fulfilled.

Which is why it produces a strong stereo effect without eye strain :-).
To look at an object 39cm from your eyes you would definitely need to
converge the eyes.  Instead you bring the cameras together. The
result is a dart board that appears to be more than a meter in diameter.

> Can this rule be derived from the focal length of the human eye or
> something?

Yes, but I'll have to look up the specifics if you want them. Ultimately
though, the rule is species specific, a dog would use a smaller separation,
say 1:20.

Harolddd


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From: Mark Gordon
Subject: Re: stereogram anyone? 51kbu
Date: 13 Jan 2000 21:57:26
Message: <387E90DF.41245BFE@mailbag.com>
Sigmund Kyrre Aas wrote:
> 
> Correct! Now can you do the tail people as well?
> 
> sig.

The Simpsons.  

I recognized the grinning mug shot the moment I saw it; I'm surprised
the neighbors didn't complain about how loudly I was laughing.

-Mark Gordon


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From: Mark Wagner
Subject: Re: stereogram anyone? 51kbu
Date: 14 Jan 2000 03:05:00
Message: <387ed8ac@news.povray.org>
Harold Baize wrote in message <387e613f@news.povray.org>...
>> camera {
>>    #local L=28;
>>    #local Pos=<-45 , 12 ,-30>*.7;
>>    location  Pos + vnormalize(vcross(Pos,y))*clock
>>    look_at   <0, 0 , -2>
>>    angle degrees(atan2(35,L))
>> }
>
>Whoa, hecka complex camera statement. Guess I'm still thinking with a
>POV 1.0 camera syntax.


How's this?  This is one of the cameras from a fly-through of the Grand
Canyon that I'm working on.

camera{
 #declare Clock = clock;
 // Some basic vector calculus, plus a fudge factor
 #declare UnitTangent = vnormalize(path(Clock+dclock)-path(Clock));
 #declare PlusdClock =
vnormalize(path(Clock+dclock+dclock)-path(Clock+dclock));
 #declare UnitNormal = vnormalize(PlusdClock - UnitTangent);
 #if(vlength(UnitNormal)=0)#declare UnitNormal =
vaxis_rotate(y,vcross(UnitTangent, y),
90-degrees(acos(vdot(UnitTangent,y))));#end
 #declare Curvature = vlength((PlusdClock -
UnitTangent)/dclock)/vlength((path(Clock+dclock)-path(Clock))/dclock);
 #declare UpVect1 = vaxis_rotate(y,vcross(UnitTangent, y),
90-degrees(acos(vdot(UnitTangent,y))));
 #declare AngleFract = atan2(Curvature,1)/(pi/2);
 #declare Angle = degrees(acos(vdot(UnitNormal, UpVect1)));
 #if(vdot(UnitNormal,UpVect1)<0)#declare Angle=(-360)+Angle;#end
 #declare Angle = (Angle/2)*AngleFract;

 #fopen FileID "GCanyon.dat" read
 #read(FileID, OldAngle)
 #fclose FileID

 #if(abs(Angle-OldAngle)>dAngle)
  #declare Angle=OldAngle+(abs(dAngle)*Sign(Angle));
 #end

 #fopen FileID "GCanyon.dat" write
 #write(FileID, Angle)
 #fclose FileID

 #declare UpVect = vaxis_rotate(UpVect1,UnitTangent,Angle);
 #declare UnitBinormal = vnormalize(vcross(UnitTangent, UpVect));
  #warning concat("Tangent:  ", str(UnitTangent.x,6,6),",",
str(UnitTangent.y,6,6), ",",str(UnitTangent.z,6,6), "\n")
  #warning concat("Normal:   ", str(UnitNormal.x,6,6),",",
str(UnitNormal.y,6,6), ",",str(UnitNormal.z,6,6), "\n")
  #warning concat("UpVect:   ", str(UpVect.x,6,6),",", str(UpVect.y,6,6),
",",str(UpVect.z,6,6), "\n")
  #warning concat("Binormal: ", str(UnitBinormal.x,6,6),",",
str(UnitBinormal.y,6,6), ",",str(UnitBinormal.z,6,6), "\n")
 location path(Clock)
 direction UnitTangent
 up UpVect
 right UnitBinormal*1.33
 angle 60
}


Mark


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From: Markus Becker
Subject: Re: stereogram anyone? 51kbu
Date: 14 Jan 2000 04:00:58
Message: <387EE5E5.FB9ED07B@student.uni-siegen.de>
Sigmund Kyrre Aas wrote:
> 
> I just crammed a stereogram out of an unfinished scene of mine.

How do you view that? Some setup with a mirror or two?
I definitely can't misadjust my eyes in such a way that
I see something (apart from too slightly different images)...

> Just wondering; shy can't I use 'actual' eye distance? I tried 7 cm
> between the cameras, but that produced far too different images. This
> one uses 1 cm and the camera is ca. 50 cm away from.

I guess you have never really viewed a scene just from 50cm away
in real live. And it has to do with the viewing angle of the camera.
The larger this is, the closer together the cameras have to be.

Markus


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From: mskjmhag
Subject: Re: stereogram anyone? 51kbu
Date: 14 Jan 2000 07:09:50
Message: <387f120e@news.povray.org>
Just imagine how far apart in your scene the human eyes would be, and for the second
picture translate the camera that much.  make
each image look in a parallel direction - when people are looking at the stereo image,
the eye-crossing differences will be done by
their own eyes; it shouldn't be done by the camera.  That's how I did my image
earlier, and it looks fine.

- Slime


Sigmund Kyrre Aas <as### [at] studntnuno> wrote in message
news:387E5F6F.350AD066@stud.ntnu.no...
> Harold Baize wrote:
> >
> > Sigmund,
> > Alright, I realize my last message didn't really answer the question- why.
> > Well, when we look at things in the distance (infinity) the line of
> > sight of each eye is parallel. It is still pretty much parallel at
> > 195cm. Given an average human eye separation of 6.5cm that works out
> > to be 1:30. When we look at things closer than this our eyes converge
>
> ahhh ooohh It's coming to me .. gotta.. _think_... Nah. G'night everone!
>
> sig., still cuious about that ratio..


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From: omniVERSE
Subject: Re: stereogram anyone? 51kbu
Date: 14 Jan 2000 07:28:23
Message: <387f1667@news.povray.org>
Curious that this doesn't look exactly right, the left/right shift seems
enough based on the apparent displacements of the dart fins against the board.
When I see it in stereo it's flat, which kind of goes with what you say about
using 1cm instead of a wider 7cm, so maybe 3cm would have been better.
  The way I use to see these is just hold my hand flatout and aligned with my
nose between my eyes and angle my hand enough to only be able to see each
picture with the corresponding eye, closing each one at a time to be sure I have
only the full left or right image in view.  Sometimes I don't need to do this at
all for the small pictures or just a quick hand divider for my eyes for others.
I think another thing to keep in mind about it is these can be fairly deep 3D
and require some focusing.  By that I mean there can be near and far parts which
have to be looked upon as separate parts, otherwise you don't ever see the whole
picture forward to back "in focus" without actually looking at those parts
alone.  This can make for a seemingly distorted and nonmergeable stereopair.
Probably the predominate factor with this particular rendering.  That in mind I
believe it needs the wider camera separation.

Bob


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From: Sigmund Kyrre Aas
Subject: Re: stereogram anyone? 51kbu
Date: 14 Jan 2000 10:34:05
Message: <387F41EF.9555B41A@stud.ntnu.no>
> Which is why it produces a strong stereo effect without eye strain :-).
> To look at an object 39cm from your eyes you would definitely need to
> converge the eyes.  Instead you bring the cameras together. The
> result is a dart board that appears to be more than a meter in diameter.

39 cm from the center, yes. With 15 cm target radius it's 33 cm away
from the closest rim of the target. Perhaps this 1:30 should be adjusted
when I've got a 28 mm lens? Maybe that's why it looks big. Oh, wait. I
didn't have a 28 attached. I copied from another scene file. It was
really 35mm.

sig.


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From: Sigmund Kyrre Aas
Subject: Re: stereogram anyone? 51kbu
Date: 14 Jan 2000 10:34:54
Message: <387F4220.B668FABC@stud.ntnu.no>
I forgot to ask you yesterday: Do you know why he was arrested? 

sig.

TonyB wrote:
> 
> >ps. Is the target person anyone we know?
> 
> William Henry Gates III, New Mexico, 1977... busted! (If I'm not mistaken.)


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From: Sigmund Kyrre Aas
Subject: Re: stereogram anyone? 51kbu
Date: 14 Jan 2000 10:35:29
Message: <387F4231.13E6E1A6@stud.ntnu.no>
omniVERSE wrote:
> 
>   Curious that this doesn't look exactly right, the left/right shift seems
> enough based on the apparent displacements of the dart fins against the board.
> When I see it in stereo it's flat, which kind of goes with what you say about
> using 1cm instead of a wider 7cm, so maybe 3cm would have been better.
...

Attached is a 2-cm-apart image. I think this one's a bit unreal. Not
sure.
To wiew these I just cross my eyes till I see 3 images and let my built
in autofocous do the rest. This usually takes .2-.5 seconds.

> have to be looked upon as separate parts, otherwise you don't ever see the whole
> picture forward to back "in focus" without actually looking at those parts

Not sure if I follow you.. If the camera spacing is right, the whole
scene should look as in real life. Don't see why it shouldn't. 
I thought about adding focal blur, but then the wiewer would have to
look at <0,0,0> all the time. 

sig.


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Attachments:
Download 'dart.jpg' (42 KB)

Preview of image 'dart.jpg'
dart.jpg


 

From: TonyB
Subject: Re: stereogram anyone? 51kbu
Date: 14 Jan 2000 11:59:39
Message: <387f55fb@news.povray.org>
>I forgot to ask you yesterday: Do you know why he was arrested?


I can't remember. DUI? Monopoly?


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