POV-Ray : Newsgroups : povray.beta-test : v3.8 help file update Server Time
19 Sep 2021 08:03:38 EDT (-0400)
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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: v3.8 help file update
Date: 3 Nov 2018 03:24:13
Message: <5bdd4d1d$1@news.povray.org>
On 2-11-2018 16:24, Kenneth wrote:
> I finally got around to downloading the latest alpha, along with this newest
> help file-- but I'm seeing a problem with the help file: Although it loads
> successfully, the entries in the 'index' list don't produce any results; that
> is, they don't 'connect' to the relevant portion of the docs. (That pane of the
> help file remains blank.) I also tried this with an earlier alpha release and
> got the same results, so it doesn't appear to be a particular alpha-release
> problem.
> 
> As a last resort, I *removed* the original 3.7.0 help file from the 'Help'
> folder (to see if the two files were interfering somehow), but that didn't fix
> it.
> 
> I *could* be doing something wrong on my end-- that's always a possibility, ha--
>   but I don't think so.
> 

Same here.

-- 
Thomas


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From: Jim Holsenback
Subject: Re: v3.8 help file update
Date: 3 Nov 2018 06:49:05
Message: <5bdd7d21$1@news.povray.org>
On 11/2/18 11:24 AM, Kenneth wrote:
> I *could* be doing something wrong on my end-- that's always a possibility, ha--
>   but I don't think so.

since i'm not a doze user take what i say with a grain of salt... iirc 
this /may/ be a help file naming issue, or something to do with the 
post-processing that clipka does to turn the docs into chm format


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From: green
Subject: Re: v3.8 help file update
Date: 3 Nov 2018 07:25:01
Message: <web.5bdd852ed18360a088dbe9e30@news.povray.org>
"Kenneth" <kdw### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
> "green" <rov### [at] gmailcom> wrote:
>
> >
> > 'unblock' the downloaded file? (is what my problem was; but i got funky
> > warnings)
>
> No, the help file seems to load in *some* form (when I go to the HELP/HELP ON
> POV-RAY tab in Windows 7 64-bit Ultimate), but the usual colorful "Persistence
> Of Vision" introduction page doesn't show up-- it's just a blank white pane
> there. The keyword 'index' is there, but nothing happens when trying to access a
> particular help topic-- no change in the blank pane.
>
> There does seem to be a difference in loading speeds(?), between this and, say,
> 3.7.1 beta 9's help file; it's like the newer help file for the alpha release
> isn't fully loading (a guess)-- it pops up instantly, whereas beta 9's (and
> others from the past) have taken one second or so to load. I do discern a
> difference in times (and different sounds of my hard drive re: one vs. the
> other.)

your symptoms were much the same as mine; i got the index but no results.
instead, on the right-hand pane i got

  Navigation to the webpage was canceled

   What you can try:
     Retype the address.

i messed around (i think i just searched for several terms) and got another
message

    script error

    an error has occurred in the script on this page.

    line; 1
    char; 1
    error; 'htmlhelp' is undefined
    code; 0
    url; res://ieframe.dll/navcancl.htm

    do you want to continue running scripts on this page?

after looking at ieframe.dll and deciding it was ok, i looked at the files
povray.chw and povray.chm.  i deleted povray.chw to no effect.  i looked at
povray.chm properties and saw it was blocked.  i unblocked it and all was fine.
just now i renamed the files and downloaded another povray.chm and got the first
error message, but i could not replicate the second error message.  i unblocked
the new povray.chm and all was fine.

this was on win7 ultimate x64.

your symptoms and mine seem too similar to be unrelated.

and some of the stuff i outlined may be out of order or even memory-fabricated,
i kept only notes of error messages, not steps etc.


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: v3.8 help file update
Date: 3 Nov 2018 08:59:22
Message: <5bdd9baa$1@news.povray.org>
Am 29.10.2018 um 18:34 schrieb clipka:
> Updated v3.8-alpha help file for POV-Ray for Windows now available on 
> GitHub:
> 
>
https://github.com/POV-Ray/povray/tree/master/distribution/platform-specific/windows/Help

> 
> 
> To be simply dropped into the v3.7 installation on which the v3.8-alpha 
> is piggybacking. (They don't interfere with the v3.7 help files, as the 
> file names are different.)

Well, it turns out it's not as simple as that: As an additional step, 
you have to tell Windows that the file is safe to use despite having 
been downloaded from the web.

In Windows Explorer, right-click the file, open the "Properties" dialog, 
and at the bottom of the "General" tab click on the "Unlock" button or 
checkbox ("Zulassen" in the German version).


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: v3.8 help file update
Date: 3 Nov 2018 09:14:30
Message: <5bdd9f36$1@news.povray.org>
Am 03.11.2018 um 11:49 schrieb Jim Holsenback:
> On 11/2/18 11:24 AM, Kenneth wrote:
>> I *could* be doing something wrong on my end-- that's always a 
>> possibility, ha--
>>   but I don't think so.
> 
> since i'm not a doze user take what i say with a grain of salt... iirc 
> this /may/ be a help file naming issue, or something to do with the 
> post-processing that clipka does to turn the docs into chm format

I could not generate the symptoms here with the original generated file; 
I had to download the file from GitHub to re-produce the issue.

Turns out green is on the right track: The symptom observed is a side 
effect of downloading the file from the internet. This sets an NTFS file 
attribute telling other software that the file may be unsafe to use. I'm 
not exactly sure what mechanism kicks in next, but my conjecture is that 
the help file viewer refuses to display the HTML pages embedded in the 
help file because they try to load a small JavaScript code snippet.

Unblocking the file (see my other post) solves the issue here.


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From: Jim Holsenback
Subject: Re: v3.8 help file update
Date: 3 Nov 2018 10:08:22
Message: <5bddabd6$1@news.povray.org>
On 11/3/18 9:14 AM, clipka wrote:
> Am 03.11.2018 um 11:49 schrieb Jim Holsenback:
>> On 11/2/18 11:24 AM, Kenneth wrote:
>>> I *could* be doing something wrong on my end-- that's always a 
>>> possibility, ha--
>>>   but I don't think so.
>>
>> since i'm not a doze user take what i say with a grain of salt... iirc 
>> this /may/ be a help file naming issue, or something to do with the 
>> post-processing that clipka does to turn the docs into chm format
> 
> I could not generate the symptoms here with the original generated file; 
> I had to download the file from GitHub to re-produce the issue.
> 
> Turns out green is on the right track: The symptom observed is a side 
> effect of downloading the file from the internet. This sets an NTFS file 
> attribute telling other software that the file may be unsafe to use. I'm 
> not exactly sure what mechanism kicks in next, but my conjecture is that 
> the help file viewer refuses to display the HTML pages embedded in the 
> help file because they try to load a small JavaScript code snippet.
> 
> Unblocking the file (see my other post) solves the issue here.

cool beans


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: v3.8 help file update
Date: 3 Nov 2018 12:50:02
Message: <web.5bddd0c8d18360a043b397d0@news.povray.org>
clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:

>
> In Windows Explorer, right-click the file, open the "Properties" dialog,
> and at the bottom of the "General" tab click on the "Unlock" button or
> checkbox ("Zulassen" in the German version).

.....Turns out green is on the right track...

Yes indeed, that solves the problem. Thanks, to both of you. (My apologies to
green for 'resisting' the idea, ha.)

The question arises as to why this newer help file was 'blocked', when, for
example, 3.7.1 beta 9's file didn't have that bothersome attribute, IIRC. I'm
wondering if a particular Windows 7/Microsoft update over the past couple of
years may have introduced a more restrictive (or more 'robust'?) protection
scheme for files downloaded from the internet.

Or could it be a by-product of the help-file build process, possibly due to a
(newer?)software tool that was used to create it?


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: v3.8 help file update
Date: 3 Nov 2018 18:49:31
Message: <5bde25fb$1@news.povray.org>
Am 03.11.2018 um 17:49 schrieb Kenneth:

> The question arises as to why this newer help file was 'blocked', when, for
> example, 3.7.1 beta 9's file didn't have that bothersome attribute, IIRC. I'm
> wondering if a particular Windows 7/Microsoft update over the past couple of
> years may have introduced a more restrictive (or more 'robust'?) protection
> scheme for files downloaded from the internet.
> 
> Or could it be a by-product of the help-file build process, possibly due to a
> (newer?)software tool that was used to create it?

The difference is in how the help file got onto your computer.

With the betas, it was an installer that you downloaded, not the help 
file itself, and - from the perspective of the operating system - the 
installer "created" the help file on your computer.


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From: Thomas de Groot
Subject: Re: v3.8 help file update
Date: 4 Nov 2018 02:27:20
Message: <5bde9f58$1@news.povray.org>
On 3-11-2018 13:59, clipka wrote:
> Am 29.10.2018 um 18:34 schrieb clipka:
>> Updated v3.8-alpha help file for POV-Ray for Windows now available on 
>> GitHub:
>>
>>
https://github.com/POV-Ray/povray/tree/master/distribution/platform-specific/windows/Help

>>
>>
>> To be simply dropped into the v3.7 installation on which the 
>> v3.8-alpha is piggybacking. (They don't interfere with the v3.7 help 
>> files, as the file names are different.)
> 
> Well, it turns out it's not as simple as that: As an additional step, 
> you have to tell Windows that the file is safe to use despite having 
> been downloaded from the web.
> 
> In Windows Explorer, right-click the file, open the "Properties" dialog, 
> and at the bottom of the "General" tab click on the "Unlock" button or 
> checkbox ("Zulassen" in the German version).

Cool! Thanks.

-- 
Thomas


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From: Kenneth
Subject: Re: v3.8 help file update
Date: 4 Nov 2018 12:25:06
Message: <web.5bdf2b18d18360a043b397d0@news.povray.org>
clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Am 03.11.2018 um 17:49 schrieb Kenneth:
>
> > The question arises as to why this newer help file was 'blocked', when...
>
> The difference is in how the help file got onto your computer.
>
> With the betas, it was an installer that you downloaded, not the help
> file itself, and - from the perspective of the operating system - the
> installer "created" the help file on your computer.

Ah yes, I do understand the difference now; thanks.

I fully admit that the inner workings of Windows' arcane security schemes are
totally baffling to me.

I see now that I picked a poor file comparison. I think a better one would be
between the new help file, and the latest alpha release. The former is
'blocked', while the latter is not. The only initial difference that I see upon
downloading them is that the help file arrives as a 'raw' file (i.e., ready to
use), whereas the alpha is a zipped file. Does the act of unzipping a file
'un-block' it?

[Administrator priviledges are required for adding *either* file to POV's bin
folder, so I don't see that as a deciding factor in blocked vs. unblocked.]

Sorry for going further down this rabbit hole, but I'm obviously having a
difficult time understanding the help file's initial state. I very rarely
encounter a blocked file when downloading stuff from the 'net (almost never.)


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