POV-Ray : Newsgroups : povray.beta-test : POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released Server Time
3 Dec 2024 20:51:41 EST (-0500)
  POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released (Message 17 to 26 of 26)  
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From: Stephen
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 20 Feb 2017 19:28:08
Message: <58ab8998$1@news.povray.org>
On 2/19/2017 7:16 PM, clipka wrote:
> Am 19.02.2017 um 17:13 schrieb Stephen:
>> On 2/19/2017 3:42 PM, Cousin Ricky wrote:
> ....
>>> Well, Microsoft has washed its hands of WinXP, so I don't see why new
>>> POV-Ray versions should have to support it.
>>
>> That is a fair point. Does PovRay run on a 16 bit OS like Win 3.1?
>
> Apples and oranges.
>

That is a metaphor I have never been able to understand even as a child.
Of course you can compare apples and oranges. They are both fruit and 
grow on trees. You can even add them.

I really commend the Pov team for their work on compatibility. It is 
unusual in the software world.


-- 

Regards
     Stephen


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From: Billabong
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 25 Feb 2017 07:25:00
Message: <web.58b1765e48a761e669fde9b50@news.povray.org>
Thank you so much for pushing forward for a new release stepping of Povray.

I am new in this forum. I have been using V3.7 for some years and now trying out
the beta releases. I am re-rendering some of the old competition sources and
found a source file that crashes at parsing in beta.3 and also beta.2, but runs
fine on the v3.7. I have a pretty standard machine running Win10.

I don't know whether you are interested to use such source for debugging and how
I can contribute such source?

BR Billabong

clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Since the beans have been spilled already, it's no use denying it
> anymore -- v3.7.1-beta.3 is available on GitHub:
>
> https://github.com/POV-Ray/povray/releases/tag/v3.7.1-beta.3
>
> Besides fixing a few bugs, this version should also improve performance
> on 64-bit Windows machines over the previous beta -- especially if your
> scene makes plenty use of noise and your CPU supports AVX2 and FMA3
> (thanks to hand-optimized code courtesy of Intel); other scenes and CPUs
> should also profit though.
>
> Unfortunately this performance gain comes at the cost of dropping
> support for Windows XP (and Windows Server 2003). In order to still be
> able to provide some level of support for these legacy operating
> systems, we have therefore decided to keep the 32-bit binaries
> XP-compatible for now, which on the other hand means that users of later
> 32-bit Windows versions will miss out on the performance improvements.
>
> Note that the choice between XP-compatibility and performance is a
> matter of the build tool used (Visual Studio 2010 will generate
> XP-compatible binaries, while Visual Studio 2015 will generate faster
> ones), so 64-bit XP-compatible binaries /can/ still be built from the
> source code, as can faster 32-bit binaries.


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From: William F Pokorny
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 26 Feb 2017 07:42:47
Message: <58b2cd47@news.povray.org>
On 02/25/2017 07:20 AM, Billabong wrote:
> Thank you so much for pushing forward for a new release stepping of Povray.
>
> I am new in this forum. I have been using V3.7 for some years and now trying out
> the beta releases. I am re-rendering some of the old competition sources and
> found a source file that crashes at parsing in beta.3 and also beta.2, but runs
> fine on the v3.7. I have a pretty standard machine running Win10.
>
> I don't know whether you are interested to use such source for debugging and how
> I can contribute such source?
>
> BR Billabong
>
>

Yes, interested. If you can prune down to some minimal set of SDL 
causing the crash(1) - more interested :-). Pruned to a small number of 
lines you can post it inline here. Otherwise largish text files can be 
posted to the povray.text.scene-files group (or as an attachment to a 
new github issue - needs to have a .txt suffix added). If you can create 
zip files or tar files these can be posted as binaries to the 
povray.binaries.scene-files group or again to github as an attachment to 
an issue.

There is further detail on how to report bugs at the bottom of this wiki 
page:

http://wiki.povray.org/content/HowTo:Contents

Bill P.


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From: Billabong
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 27 Feb 2017 04:00:01
Message: <web.58b3e92f48a761e669fde9b50@news.povray.org>
Hi again,
the source is not too long, so I simply pasted it below.
BR Billabong

//================

#version 3.7;

global_settings {
  assumed_gamma 2.2
  max_trace_level 16
}


camera {
  location  <0,1,-2.8>
  up <0,1,0>
  right <1,0,0>
  look_at <0,1,10>
}

#declare Y = -0.2;
#while (Y<2.2)
    light_source {
        0*x
        color rgb 0.7
        translate <0, Y,0.7>
    }
    #declare Y = Y + 0.2;
#end

light_source {
    0*x
    color rgb 2
    translate <0, 0.7,1.7>
}
//--------

sky_sphere { pigment { rgb 1} }

#declare Random = seed(7);

#macro Ice_Texture(Random)
 texture  {
  pigment {
     color rgbf <0.5+rand(Random)/5,0.8+rand(Random)/5,1-rand(Random)/10,1>
  }
  finish {
   diffuse 0.9
   reflection 0.05
   brilliance 7
  }
 }
#end


#macro Fire_Texture(Random,Transparenz)
 texture {
  pigment {
     color rgbf
<1-rand(Random)/10,0.15+rand(Random)/10,rand(Random)/10,Transparenz>
  }
  normal { quilted scale 1-rand(Random)/4 }
  finish {
   diffuse 0.9
   ambient 0.5
   reflection 0.2
   brilliance 2
  }
 }
#end

#macro Triangle_SplitF(point1,point2,point3,Nesting,Transparenz)
  #if(Nesting<15)
   #if(vlength(point1-point2)>vlength(point2-point3))
    #if(vlength(point1-point2)>vlength(point1-point3))
     #local point4 = point1 + (0.4+rand(Random)*0.2)*(point2-point1);
     Triangle_SplitF(point1,point3,point4,Nesting+1,Transparenz)
     Triangle_SplitF(point2,point3,point4,Nesting+1,Transparenz)
    #else
     #local point4 = point1 + (0.4+rand(Random)*0.2)*(point3-point1);
     Triangle_SplitF(point1,point2,point4,Nesting+1,Transparenz)
     Triangle_SplitF(point2,point3,point4,Nesting+1,Transparenz)
    #end
   #else
    #if(vlength(point2-point3)>vlength(point1-point3))
     #local point4 = point2 + (0.4+rand(Random)*0.2)*(point3-point2);
     Triangle_SplitF(point1,point3,point4,Nesting+1,Transparenz)
     Triangle_SplitF(point2,point1,point4,Nesting+1,Transparenz)
    #else
     #local point4 = point1 + (0.4+rand(Random)*0.2)*(point3-point1);
     Triangle_SplitF(point1,point2,point4,Nesting+1,Transparenz)
     Triangle_SplitF(point2,point3,point4,Nesting+1,Transparenz)
    #end
   #end
 #else
  triangle{point1,point2,point3 Fire_Texture(Random,Transparenz)}
 #end
#end

Triangle_SplitF(<-10,-10,5>,<10,-10,5>,<10,10,5>,0,0)
Triangle_SplitF(<-10,-10,5>,<-10,10,5>,<10,10,5>,0,0)


#macro Tetraeder(point1,point2,point3,point4,Texture)
mesh {
 triangle{point1,point2,point3 texture{Texture}}
 triangle{point1,point2,point4 texture{Texture}}
 triangle{point1,point4,point3 texture{Texture}}
 triangle{point4,point2,point3 texture{Texture}}
}
#end


#macro Tetraeder_Split(point1,point2,point3,point4,Nesting)
  #if(Nesting<12)
   #local vl12 = vlength(point1-point2);
   #local vl13 = vlength(point1-point3);
   #local vl14 = vlength(point1-point4);
   #local vl23 = vlength(point2-point3);
   #local vl24 = vlength(point2-point4);
   #local vl34 = vlength(point3-point4);
   #if(vl12>=vl13 & vl12>=vl14 & vl12>=vl23 & vl12 >= vl24 & vl12 >= vl34)
    #local point1a = point1;
    #local point2a = point2;
    #local point3a = point3;
    #local point4a = point4;
   #else
    #if(vl13>=vl14 & vl13>=vl23 & vl13 >= vl24 & vl13 >= vl34)
     #local point1a = point1;
     #local point2a = point3;
     #local point3a = point2;
     #local point4a = point4;
    #else
     #if(vl14>=vl23 & vl14 >= vl24 & vl14 >= vl34)
      #local point1a = point1;
      #local point2a = point4;
      #local point3a = point2;
      #local point4a = point3;
     #else
      #if(vl23 >= vl24 & vl23 >= vl34)
       #local point1a = point2;
       #local point2a = point3;
       #local point3a = point1;
       #local point4a = point4;
      #else
       #if(vl24 >= vl34)
        #local point1a = point2;
        #local point2a = point4;
        #local point3a = point1;
        #local point4a = point3;
       #else
        #local point1a = point3;
        #local point2a = point4;
        #local point3a = point1;
        #local point4a = point2;
       #end
      #end
     #end
    #end
   #end

   #local point5a = point1a + (0.4+0.2*rand(Random))*(point2a-point1a);
   Tetraeder_Split(point1a,point4a,point3a,point5a,Nesting+1)
   Tetraeder_Split(point2a,point4a,point3a,point5a,Nesting+1)
 #else
  Tetraeder(point1,point2,point3,point4,Ice_Texture(rand(Random)))
 #end

#end

Tetraeder_Split(<-0.8,0,-0.8>,<0.8,0,-0.8>,<0,2.4,0>,<0,0,-0.7>,0)
Tetraeder_Split(<-0.8,0,0.8>,<0.8,0,0.8>,<0,2.4,0>,<0,0,0.7>,0)
Tetraeder_Split(<-0.8,0,-0.8>,<-0.8,0,0.8>,<0,2.4,0>,<-0.7,0,0>,0)
Tetraeder_Split(<0.8,0,-0.8>,<0.8,0,0.8>,<0,2.4,0>,<0.7,0,0>,0)

triangle {<-1.45,-0.8,0.8>,<1.45,-0.8,0.8>,<0,2.8,0.8> pigment {rgb 1} }













William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> On 02/25/2017 07:20 AM, Billabong wrote:
> > Thank you so much for pushing forward for a new release stepping of Povray.
> >
> > I am new in this forum. I have been using V3.7 for some years and now trying out
> > the beta releases. I am re-rendering some of the old competition sources and
> > found a source file that crashes at parsing in beta.3 and also beta.2, but runs
> > fine on the v3.7. I have a pretty standard machine running Win10.
> >
> > I don't know whether you are interested to use such source for debugging and how
> > I can contribute such source?
> >
> > BR Billabong
> >
> >
>
> Yes, interested. If you can prune down to some minimal set of SDL
> causing the crash(1) - more interested :-). Pruned to a small number of
> lines you can post it inline here. Otherwise largish text files can be
> posted to the povray.text.scene-files group (or as an attachment to a
> new github issue - needs to have a .txt suffix added). If you can create
> zip files or tar files these can be posted as binaries to the
> povray.binaries.scene-files group or again to github as an attachment to
> an issue.
>
> There is further detail on how to report bugs at the bottom of this wiki
> page:
>
> http://wiki.povray.org/content/HowTo:Contents
>
> Bill P.


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From: clipka
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 27 Feb 2017 06:16:23
Message: <58b40a87$1@news.povray.org>
Am 25.02.2017 um 13:20 schrieb Billabong:
> Thank you so much for pushing forward for a new release stepping of Povray.
> 
> I am new in this forum. I have been using V3.7 for some years and now trying out
> the beta releases. I am re-rendering some of the old competition sources and
> found a source file that crashes at parsing in beta.3 and also beta.2, but runs
> fine on the v3.7. I have a pretty standard machine running Win10.

Can you be more specific about the scene "crashing"?

I do notice a pause between parsing and the start of the render,
probably related to the many warning messages your scene produces, but
after a few seconds the render does proceed.

You can avoid the warning messages (and the unexpected pause) by
replacing "ambient 0.5" with "emission 0.5" in the "Fire_Texture" macro,
or by using "#version 3.6" instead of "#version 3.7".


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From: William F Pokorny
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 27 Feb 2017 10:07:52
Message: <58b440c8$1@news.povray.org>
On 02/27/2017 06:16 AM, clipka wrote:
> Am 25.02.2017 um 13:20 schrieb Billabong:
>
> Can you be more specific about the scene "crashing"?
>
>

I'm able to run the posted SDL on my Ubuntu 16.04 linux machine as well.

Bill P.


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From: Bald Eagle
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 27 Feb 2017 15:40:00
Message: <web.58b48e1d48a761e6c437ac910@news.povray.org>
William F Pokorny <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> I'm able to run the posted SDL on my Ubuntu 16.04 linux machine as well.
> Bill P.

I'm running on my work laptop (Win 8, i5) and at 800 x 600 a0.3, it took about 3
hours to render - but no crash.


Very nice, but I think there's gotta be a faster way to get 99% of the look.  :O

Please keep working on this scene and share some of your experiments and
improvements!


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From: Billabong
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 1 Mar 2017 11:55:01
Message: <web.58b6fcca48a761e63207e7190@news.povray.org>
clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Can you be more specific about the scene "crashing"?
>
> I do notice a pause between parsing and the start of the render,
> probably related to the many warning messages your scene produces, but
> after a few seconds the render does proceed.
>
> You can avoid the warning messages (and the unexpected pause) by
> replacing "ambient 0.5" with "emission 0.5" in the "Fire_Texture" macro,
> or by using "#version 3.6" instead of "#version 3.7".

You are right, I was too impatient, there is no crashing.
First I replaced "ambient" by "emission", so getting rid of all messages.
Then the SDL parses correctly and rendering starts after some seconds.
The generated object are counted-up in the status line, so everything is fine.

You are also right, the pausing is caused by the warning messages.
To provoke this effect even more, I left the "ambient" and added a few lines of
"#render" within the recursion loop containing a long string with bad
characters. This caused -really- many warnings!

The effect on the GUI is very similar to a crash.
After pressing "Run" warning messages start to list up in the bottom status
line. After 2-3 seconds, the status line freezes. If I then try to switch to the
"Messages" Tab, the entire GUI freezes, the cursor starts to spin and the window
is saying "not responding".
However, if I check the status of the CPU cores, I see that all are fully in
use, which is a sign that rendering has started already. During parsing just a
single core is used. So obviously parsing has finished, rendering has started,
but the GUI is still hanging and busy with warning message output.

After provoking such many warning messages, this state of freeze lasted about 30
seconds, after that the GUI recovers and jumps immediately to showing the render
progress, and there is it also obvious that rendering has taken place during the
freeze state.

I tried the trick with using the unsupported #render / #statistic console output
pipe also with v3.7 and the effect was the same, so this issue seems to be not
new in this beta.

I have a pretty fast CPU, and if just one of the cores is used (which is the
case for parsing) the core goes into turbo mode at higher clock-rates. So my
guess would be that the parser generates the warning triggers faster than the
GUI console can output them, in particular if the warning string is long, which
is the case for the "ambient" warning. An additional problem is that rendering
is started using all cores, so the core used for the GUI and the message output
is pushed into its limit by the additional load from the rendering thread,
causing the freeze state to be even longer.

So no crash, but the effect looks very similar and an impatient user will not
wait but kill the window immediately. In times of fast CPUs, maybe the thread
distribution has to be reconsidered?

BR Billabong


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From: LucasGrijander
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 2 Mar 2017 17:35:00
Message: <web.58b89db448a761e6f866db150@news.povray.org>
clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
> Since the beans have been spilled already, it's no use denying it
> anymore -- v3.7.1-beta.3 is available on GitHub:
>
> https://github.com/POV-Ray/povray/releases/tag/v3.7.1-beta.3
>
> Besides fixing a few bugs, this version should also improve performance
> on 64-bit Windows machines over the previous beta -- especially if your
> scene makes plenty use of noise and your CPU supports AVX2 and FMA3
> (thanks to hand-optimized code courtesy of Intel); other scenes and CPUs
> should also profit though.
>
> Unfortunately this performance gain comes at the cost of dropping
> support for Windows XP (and Windows Server 2003). In order to still be
> able to provide some level of support for these legacy operating
> systems, we have therefore decided to keep the 32-bit binaries
> XP-compatible for now, which on the other hand means that users of later
> 32-bit Windows versions will miss out on the performance improvements.
>
> Note that the choice between XP-compatibility and performance is a
> matter of the build tool used (Visual Studio 2010 will generate
> XP-compatible binaries, while Visual Studio 2015 will generate faster
> ones), so 64-bit XP-compatible binaries /can/ still be built from the
> source code, as can faster 32-bit binaries.

Bad news for me, I've WinXP64 on all my machines.


Post a reply to this message

From: clipka
Subject: Re: POV-Ray v3.7.1-beta.3 Released
Date: 2 Mar 2017 18:24:27
Message: <58b8a9ab$1@news.povray.org>
Am 02.03.2017 um 23:33 schrieb LucasGrijander:
> clipka <ano### [at] anonymousorg> wrote:
>> Since the beans have been spilled already, it's no use denying it
>> anymore -- v3.7.1-beta.3 is available on GitHub:
>>
>> https://github.com/POV-Ray/povray/releases/tag/v3.7.1-beta.3
>>
>> Besides fixing a few bugs, this version should also improve performance
>> on 64-bit Windows machines over the previous beta -- especially if your
>> scene makes plenty use of noise and your CPU supports AVX2 and FMA3
>> (thanks to hand-optimized code courtesy of Intel); other scenes and CPUs
>> should also profit though.
>>
>> Unfortunately this performance gain comes at the cost of dropping
>> support for Windows XP (and Windows Server 2003). In order to still be
>> able to provide some level of support for these legacy operating
>> systems, we have therefore decided to keep the 32-bit binaries
>> XP-compatible for now, which on the other hand means that users of later
>> 32-bit Windows versions will miss out on the performance improvements.
>>
>> Note that the choice between XP-compatibility and performance is a
>> matter of the build tool used (Visual Studio 2010 will generate
>> XP-compatible binaries, while Visual Studio 2015 will generate faster
>> ones), so 64-bit XP-compatible binaries /can/ still be built from the
>> source code, as can faster 32-bit binaries.
> 
> Bad news for me, I've WinXP64 on all my machines.

Thanks for letting us know; this is important feedback for us.
For a more complete picture, may I ask what CPUs you are running XP x64 on?

That said, remember you should still be able to run official POV-Ray on
your Windows XP x64 machines by using the 32-bit SSE2 binary.

While the current installer doesn't properly handle XP x64, still
registering the (now incompatible) 64-bit binaries instead of the 32-bit
SSE2 binaries (or at least that's what we expect; we haven't had a
chance to actually test it), we are fully aware of this problem, and are
committed to fixing it in the next beta.


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