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Ingo Guenther (ing### [at] REMOVEnetcologne de) wrote:
: way it is. Maybe 2.5 runs in a DOS emulation under linux, never tried this,
: but you would drop a lot of cool stuff that came with 2.0.
Oh... is there more things in version 2.0 than in 2.5? How's that? Is the
version number going backwards?
--
- Warp. -
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Hello!
>Ingo Guenther (ing### [at] REMOVEnetcolognede) wrote:
>: way it is. Maybe 2.5 runs in a DOS emulation under linux, never tried this,
>: but you would drop a lot of cool stuff that came with 2.0.
>
> Oh... is there more things in version 2.0 than in 2.5? How's that? Is the
>version number going backwards?
3.0, of course - funny that there are still people giggling about a typo...
;)
Bye,
Ingo.
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On 3 Mar 1998 19:57:48 GMT, bob### [at] clodomirrezelenstfr (Roland Mas)
wrote:
>Is anybody aware of a Linux version of Moray? Either under X-Window or
>on the Linux console, I do not mind. But please, do not force me to sacrify
>a partition to Windows 95! Even a Windows 3.1 version (or port) would be
>enough for me.
> Waiting for your information,
>
>B-o-b, also called Roland.
>--
>bob### [at] casimirrezelenstfr -- Linux, POV-Ray, LaTeX
>
No, but someone competent with the ins and outs of linux could ask
Softronics to allow for a try to port it. And if they like it, to have
it official and why not, selling. There is a linux POVray, so this
would quicken not only my spirit like someone had opened a window. I
feel absolutely sick for spending a dime anymore on this guy Bill
Gates which is far to sloppy and greedy for being the richest man in
the world. This is not ranting, but therapy and an attempt, to
participate in the question, where the world is going to. Hope, noone
feels disturbed. (I really cannot imagine, anyway). On a medium, that
is so attention catching as computer technology, there is nothing more
asked for than open structures, to give mankind the chance, to have a
more representative sharetaking of it's whirlpool of intelligence and
ethics thinking as a basis of everyday's work. Which will be more and
more influenced by computers. Noone seems to feel the atmosphere, this
cheers ranting moneymaker radiates through his sticky business
decisions. A guy, that supervises his major selling product in such a
sloppy manner! I have w95b, and it's a joke. Except for FAT32 being a
major enhancement, there are dozens of obvious bugs not have been
taken care for to kill, but the explorer to implant in a manner to
make it seemingly obligate. He is so tasteless, it's embarassing.
Doesn't anyone see, what it will mean, if this guy is dictating not
to millions, but billions, what is to be considered a good or a bad
way in decision making and production? Because that is, what a
desktop with all it's machines, spell programs of this and that
faculty is! If someone in the 'outside world' wants to undertake a
business, a product, he's got the idea of the product and then looks
for machines, that can accomplish that. That's the best case. Then
there are people, and that's more or less all of us, that also need
inspiration, intuition, education. By people, that have an idea
already. That's the way, mankind carries it's knowledge along. Now,
when I first saw one of this DOS machines, I thought, man, this can't
be true, this is so absolutely boring and tasteless, where is the next
planet? I started with a sinclair and went to Acorn. Which had 32 bit,
a desktop, a three-button mouse, a menu right under the cursor and
multitasking, that's so long ago, there where still running mainframes
with 16 bit. This is ten years ago. But this guy here was always the
last! Because he was it all stealing! What w95 represents, is not the
result of originating makers, but a bit of here and there, and the
pardon me, stupid answer, that there is NT, comes to me like a slap in
the face, from the man, claiming to drive latest technology for
mankind, as it is sheer cynism. So there are two OS's, one for the
stupid, and one for the brighter? Thanks, no.
Don't you think, a child sitting at the computer does not notice, how
flimsy this w95b upgrade was? Or others will be? And how do you tell
your child then, it would be good to do it's homework? If the somehow
right now mightiest man in the world does not? What's this kid running
up against?
Still afraid of physical wars? Bah, childish.
The war is full blast going.
This guy is not looking for a better mankind or way of living. He's
looking to control you. Worse. He even hasn't made up what for.
He's an empty popanz. That's per the dictionary, he is, a puppet.
Worshipping himself. He is not concerned about anything else.
But he needs a mirror. And that's you, boys and girls, eating shit,
when the fucking thing crashes again, or you wonder, why your
neighbour is opening his windows double fast and antialiased with 30
mips whereas your machine is supposed to have 80.
steff
PS I really would like to see some more programs to feed a more
universal character in bitmanipulation and linux seems to be the
platform. There is moral involved in programming, and Moray always had
a high standard there.
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Stefan Blandow wrote:
>
> On 3 Mar 1998 19:57:48 GMT, bob### [at] clodomirrezelenstfr (Roland Mas)
> wrote:
>
> >Is anybody aware of a Linux version of Moray? Either under X-Window or
> >on the Linux console, I do not mind. But please, do not force me to sacrify
> >a partition to Windows 95! Even a Windows 3.1 version (or port) would be
> >enough for me.
> > Waiting for your information,
> >
> >B-o-b, also called Roland.
> >--
> >bob### [at] casimirrezelenstfr -- Linux, POV-Ray, LaTeX
> >
>
Moray for windows looks so great.
I recently emailed the Moray guys about a X-windows port for linux, :)
i would pay double for it...i can't encourage them enough. some great
things are happening in the Linux world, particulary the X-windows
enviroment.
including.........
Linux will surely Rock the PC world very shortly..on the 15th April a
3d/animation company will release to the Linux public their inhouse
3danimation software FREE \o/ www.neogeo.nl - its called blender.
Peace,
Jules
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Julian wrote:
>
> Stefan Blandow wrote:
> >
> > On 3 Mar 1998 19:57:48 GMT, bob### [at] clodomirrezelenstfr (Roland Mas)
> > wrote:
> >
> > >Is anybody aware of a Linux version of Moray? Either under X-Window or
> > >on the Linux console, I do not mind. But please, do not force me to sacrify
> > >a partition to Windows 95! Even a Windows 3.1 version (or port) would be
> > >enough for me.
> > > Waiting for your information,
> > >
> > >B-o-b, also called Roland.
> > >--
> > >bob### [at] casimirrezelenstfr -- Linux, POV-Ray, LaTeX
> > >
> >
> Moray for windows looks so great.
> I recently emailed the Moray guys about a X-windows port for linux, :)
> i would pay double for it...i can't encourage them enough. some great
> things are happening in the Linux world, particulary the X-windows
> enviroment.
> including.........
> Linux will surely Rock the PC world very shortly..on the 15th April a
> 3d/animation company will release to the Linux public their inhouse
> 3danimation software FREE \o/ www.neogeo.nl - its called blender.
> Peace,
> Jules
Blender looks kinda cool. freeware even! unbelievable. I wonder what the
hardware req's would be for under linux. I wish I had like a p300 or
something :) maybe a little more patience and understanding too. thanks
for thie link!
Ross
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Ross Litscher wrote:
>
> Blender looks kinda cool. freeware even! unbelievable. I wonder what the
> hardware req's would be for under linux. I wish I had like a p300 or
> something :) maybe a little more patience and understanding too. thanks
> for thie link!
>
> Ross
I've also been looking at blender, and hey, 15ht of April is very well timed, as that
is
when I get my p300...;-), but then blender is not povray is it? Even if blender is a
killer app, I will always have a soft spot for povray...
Cheers, Matthew
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On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:24:18 +1000, Julian <hgl### [at] tigcomau> wrote:
>Stefan Blandow wrote:
>> On 3 Mar 1998 19:57:48 GMT, bob### [at] clodomirrezelenstfr (Roland Mas)
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Is anybody aware of a Linux version of Moray? Either under X-Window or
>> >on the Linux console, I do not mind. But please, do not force me to sacrify
>> >a partition to Windows 95! Even a Windows 3.1 version (or port) would be
>> >enough for me.
had to snip
>Moray for windows looks so great.
>I recently emailed the Moray guys about a X-windows port for linux, :)
Hei, that's great. I've done that only so far threading, hope there
will be more requests. It always needs pushing and shuffling to make
things happen, to overcome the paralysing blanketing of MS.
>i would pay double for it...
Me too.. Yes, Sir, stante pede.
> i can't encourage them enough. some great
>things are happening in the Linux world, particulary the X-windows
>enviroment.
>including.........
>Linux will surely Rock the PC world very shortly..on the 15th April a
>3d/animation company will release to the Linux public their inhouse
>3danimation software FREE \o/ www.neogeo.nl - its called blender.
Hei, thanks, Jules, this looks very promising! The viewport handling
and all, it obviously breathes intelligence. It really looks nice!
>Peace,
>Jules
Peace Jules.
steff
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Sadly Doesn't look like moray will be ported at the moment...there no
$$$ in it, well then if thats the case, so be it...but would hate to see
it go along with my win95 partition though. I'm sure that there would be
lots of people willing to help out with the source..but its still early
days for winmoray, and the moray guys have been good to us through the
years, and like you say steff, all it takes is a little pushin.
Moray is a great app, even though i said i'ld pay double (amapi is $25-
had to sneak that in..sory:). Its because the Linux enviroment is
constantly developing (at speeds MS could only dream of) people are
coding all the time for it and I would hate to see a Moray ripoff, but
as the saying goes "If you don't do it someone else will"
I believe linux and its many free appliations will play a big part in
disrupting ol Bill Gates and his dream of the MS empire in the future to
come...people will soon realise the Advantages of Linux (besides being
FREE), and its good will of its many developers, heres a little quote i
got off www.debian.org (one of the developers of Linux)
i found interesting and some of you might too.
"A better question is how do software companies get away with charging
so much? Software is not like making a car. Once you've made one copy of
your software, the production costs to make a million more are tiny
(there's a good reason Microsoft has so many billions in the bank). Look
at it another way: if you had an endless supply of sand in your
backyard, you might be willing to give sand away. It would be foolish,
though, to pay for a truck to take it to others. You would make them
come and get it themselves (equivalent to downloading off the net) or
they can pay someone else to deliver it to their door (equivalent to
buying a CD). This is exactly how Debian operates and why most of the
CDs are so cheap (less than $5 U.S. for 2 CDs). , "
yup $5 ...cheaper than dos everwas..yet 10times more powerful.
Peace,
Jules
Steff...might've inadvertently email ya a copy..sory :)
> On Sat, 11 Apr 1998 19:24:18 +1000, Julian <hgl### [at] tigcomau> wrote:
>
> >Stefan Blandow wrote:
> >> On 3 Mar 1998 19:57:48 GMT, bob### [at] clodomirrezelenstfr (Roland Mas)
> >> wrote:
> Hei, thanks, Jules, this looks very promising! The viewport handling
> and all, it obviously breathes intelligence. It really looks nice!
>
> >Peace,
> >Jules
>
> Peace Jules.
>
> steff
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Julian wrote in message <3533A723.3AAC4386@tig.com.au>...
>"A better question is how do software companies get away with charging
>so much? Software is not like making a car. Once you've made one copy of
>your software, the production costs to make a million more are tiny...
[snip]
Hi!
I don't want to go into the discussion about Linux / Windows good or not,
because I don't know nothing about Linux and I never use Windows 95, only
NT.
But to respond to the lines above:
That's a quote that *reaallly* sounds good, but when thought about (not even
very hard) it quickly becomes obvious, that it is quite some way off the
reality!
Anybody who thinks that softwaredevelopment is cheap or can be cheap, lives
with the head in the clouds.
TANSTAAFL!
O.k., if somebody really get's his/her heartblood into a project, it can be
produced quite cheaply, but this someone then also needs some other income,
or the project will soon die!
Software is in so huge demand that developers can happily ask for nice
salaries (though nowhere near exorbitant for the huge bulk of them), or
otherwise just go to some other firm (and I am happy with that, because I am
one myself :-).
And these salaries just have to be payed! Now think about the thousands of
man-hours that go into the big commerical software - or even Linux - and sum
that upp...
This is even something Linus Thorwald himself recognized in a way: I read a
quote where he stated to not like shareware, because a) it is usually
"guiltware" (ok, I should pay, but I don't, so I feel guilty) and b) really
most shareware comes nowhere near the commercial products, but you still
have to pay for it, if it is so bad then it should at least be free and c)
you don't get the sourcecode.
I see a) as something everybody has to take up with himself and c) as
something most people are not really bothered about (hey, I myself - as a
developer - never feel the urge to look into the sources of the software I
use, I hate looking into other people's sourcecode!)
And b), if read from another point of view, actually means: Shareware is
mostly crap (or at least far behind commercial products), because it
generates very little money, and developers therefor just can't afford to
give it as much time as it would need to make it a good product (that's why
we have to wait some time for new Moray versions: Lutz and Markus have to
work on "real" income-generating products inbetween their Moray-"Hobby" -
this is not to say that Moray is crap! Far from that!!!).
The point, even indirectly stated by the father of Linux, is: No money, no
good software.
Yes, there are the *really* good projects (like Linux and POV-Ray) that are
free. But they only exist because of a dedicated group of hundereds
(thousands?) of programmers that put in a little time now and then.
Now imagine, that all software would be developed that way: That would
essentially mean, that all software developers of the world put in a little
time now and then to produce all the software needed. And it is easy to see
that this is not possible, because all the developers in the world already
put in nearly 100% of their time and it still isn't enough!!! That's why you
read numbers like 10% missing IT personell in the U.S., which already
threatens the State's economy!
And there you are again: They all would have to work fulltime, thus having
no other way to generate income, so they have to be paid, so the customers
have to pay for the software (or who else? the state, who would then finance
that with taxes?) -> Software (the big bulk of it) can't be free, and, with
the argument of Linus Thorwald, we should be happy for it, because otherwise
the quality would be much lower.
-- Johannes.
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Julian wrote in message <3533A723.3AAC4386@tig.com.au>...
>Sadly Doesn't look like moray will be ported at the moment...there no
>$$$ in it, well then if thats the case, so be it...but would hate to see
>
>I believe linux and its many free appliations will play a big part in
>disrupting ol Bill Gates and his dream of the MS empire in the future to
>come...people will soon realise the Advantages of Linux (besides being
>FREE), and its good will of its many developers, heres a little quote i
These two statements sum up why there aren't very many people willing
to port applications that cost $$ to Linux. Linux is free, that's why
people
like it. Also stated is free software to go along with the free OS. So why
would a developer want to port a piece of SW that is earning him/her
$$ to a platform that everyone expects everything to be free. I constantly
get request to port to Linux, but if I did port it would take me at least
a year.
> constantly developing (at speeds MS could only dream of) people are
> coding all the time for it and I would hate to see a Moray ripoff, but
> as the saying goes "If you don't do it someone else will"
I constantly get requests and see requests for Moray to port to Linux. My
question is why there isn't a group working on a Moray "ripoff" for Linux?
I say go for it. The Linux people should be able to "ripoff" Moray at
speeds
only Windows developers can dream of.
> "A better question is how do software companies get away with charging
> so much? Software is not like making a car. Once you've made one copy of
> your software, the production costs to make a million more are tiny
The cost of SW is not in its media costs. Its in the cost of the bits that
go on the
media.
Jeff
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