I fully understand what you a saying, in a roundabout way :)
Linux Proves and and proves time and again that free is not crap..not
substandard to "commercial products" but can be just as good if not
superior, but its developement and of its products must be approached in
a different way i.e a collaborative via GPL way. :)

Look at Blender!! is free! company is obviously making a comfortable
income..says "hey what the hell, lets give it away!"
but not all SW companys can do this. so we are lucky.
If the likes of bill gates got their greedy little hands on it you could
expect "hey lets make lotsa $$$$ on this..and hey we hardly even spend a
DIME on its developement..Muahhahaha" :)
All that aside, Moray is great!!

Post a reply to this message

I wasn't going to jump into this thread, because it is not on the subject of
Moray, but I couldn't help it.

Julian wrote in message <3535E457.3FDCAD7A@tig.com.au>...
[snip]
>If the likes of bill gates got their greedy little hands on it you could
[snip]

I'm just sick of people bashing Bill Gates.  Sure... he may be greedy, but
having never met him, I don't know.  If you think that all rich people are
greedy, you are mistaken.  Bill gets his salary because free people in a
free society are willing to buy his product.  He gets the vast majority of
his wealth because free people in a free society are willing to buy stock in
his company... he doesn't set the price of MS stock, others do.  The only
way to get rid of the rich is to get rid of freedom.

Eric

--------------------------------
"Of all tyrannies a tyranny exercised for the good of its
victims may be the most oppressive. It may be better to
live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral
busybodies.  The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes
sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those
who torment us for our own good will torment us without end
for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
                                 * C. S. Lewis (1898-1963)
--------------------------------
http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/2354/
http://www.datasync.com/~reba/
>expect "hey lets make lotsa $$$$ on this..and hey we hardly even spend a
>DIME on its developement..Muahhahaha" :)
>All that aside, Moray is great!!

Post a reply to this message

On Fri, 17 Apr 1998 23:59:46 -0500, "Eric Freeman"
<eri### [at] geocitiescom> wrote:

>I wasn't going to jump into this thread, because it is not on the subject of
>Moray, but I couldn't help it.
>
>Julian wrote in message <3535E457.3FDCAD7A@tig.com.au>...
>[snip]
>>If the likes of bill gates got their greedy little hands on it you could
>[snip]
>
>I'm just sick of people bashing Bill Gates.  Sure... he may be greedy, but
>having never met him, I don't know.  If you think that all rich people are
>greedy, you are mistaken.

Julian didn't mention the word rich one time. So, what are you talkin'
about? We're talkin' about style here, Eric.
Bill Gates is sellin' the boulevard-press of coding, man! With an
outlook of how the mass might imagine an egghead who nows! But he is
just a selfmirroring lunatic, who wants power! And if you don't watch
out, you'll find out. If you ever will. Your' talkin' freedom? Freedom
starts with education on this earth, my friend! That's the highest
responsibility, one can take here! One tragedy with nouveaux riches is
their lack in education for the responsibility to educate.  I know
rich people, very rich people and I know poor people, very poor
people. I have friends amongst them. But I would never say, I like
rich people or I like poor people. That's ridiculous and insane.
There's only people, one by one. And I would not like Bill Gates to be
my neighbour. I would not want to buy a thing from him. But I do like
to use Moray. And Softronics probably choose MS stuff because they
want to survive.

> Bill gets his salary because free people in a
>free society are willing to buy his product.  He gets the vast majority of
>his wealth because free people in a free society are willing to buy stock in
>his company... he doesn't set the price of MS stock, others do.  The only
>way to get rid of the rich is to get rid of freedom.

The thing with the rich seems to be more a problem at your side.

>
>Eric
>
>--------------------------------
>"Of all tyrannies a tyranny exercised for the good of its
>victims may be the most oppressive. 

Oh boy! This sounds to me like the swan song for Mr. Gates! He's the
one, who's killing brands with a smile on his face! He, really or not,
who will ever know that, thinks, he's the bit messiah of the world,
man! Are you blind? He's trying to kill every market, he can reach!
He is trying with allmight and would not hesitate to monopolyse any
market he can reach! Did you ever try to picture this guy, leaning
back, sighing, smoking a cigar, saying, that's enough now, let's live!
Can you?!? Never, man, I cannot! That's why I speak out!
Do we need such a man, who never stops?
We had one over here in germany, man, really exciting!
You may admire him for his thrust, but, oh, be careful !

>It may be better to
>live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral
>busybodies.  The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes
>sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those
>who torment us for our own good will torment us without end

sigh, man, sigh!

>for they do so with the approval of their own conscience."
>                                 * C. S. Lewis (1898-1963)
>--------------------------------
>http://www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/Heights/2354/
>http://www.datasync.com/~reba/
>>expect "hey lets make lotsa $$$$ on this..and hey we hardly even spend a
>>DIME on its developement..Muahhahaha" :)
>>All that aside, Moray is great!!
>
>

steff

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Bill gets his money because he effectively back stabs his opponents.  Look what
he did to IBM and OS/2.  Supported them until they had tons of money invested in
OS/2 then came out with NT to crush OS/2.  People buy his products because it is
the only one out there that other companies are willing to support.

Eric Freeman wrote:

>  Bill gets his salary because free people in a
> free society are willing to buy his product.

Post a reply to this message

Stefan Blandow wrote:
::snip::
> 
> Oh boy! This sounds to me like the swan song for Mr. Gates! He's the
> one, who's killing brands with a smile on his face! He, really or not,
> who will ever know that, thinks, he's the bit messiah of the world,
> man! Are you blind? He's trying to kill every market, he can reach!
> He is trying with allmight and would not hesitate to monopolyse any
> market he can reach! Did you ever try to picture this guy, leaning
> back, sighing, smoking a cigar, saying, that's enough now, let's live!
> Can you?!? Never, man, I cannot! That's why I speak out!
> Do we need such a man, who never stops?
> We had one over here in germany, man, really exciting!
> You may admire him for his thrust, but, oh, be careful !
> 
> >It may be better to
> >live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral
> >busybodies.  The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes
> >sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those
> >who torment us for our own good will torment us without end
> 
> sigh, man, sigh!
> 

You guys all need to chill. I have but one comment on this matter. The
man knows how to play the game.

Post a reply to this message

couldn't agree with you more stef. 
Jules

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Can we please dipense with the histrionics people. If you want to
froth at the mouth at the unfairness of whatever socio-poloitical
system you are part of go to alt.whatever.

Post a reply to this message

Anthony Bouttell wrote in message <353b1729.37592915@news.povray.org>...
>Can we please dipense with the histrionics people. If you want to
>froth at the mouth at the unfairness of whatever socio-poloitical
>system you are part of go to alt.whatever.
>

Uhmm...
Where did you get THAT? Jeff simply explained simple economics. I saw no
"Frothing at the mouth" or "histrionics". Especially nothing about
socio-political systems. Not intending to flame here, but really, sometimes
it helps to understand what has been written,  instead of taking exception
to what they appeared to say.
As well, it also helps to add something to the discussion, instead of
telling people "Go elsewhere, because _I_ don't agree with what you say."

As a wise man said ( I forget who said it, actually.. ) "I may not agree
with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it."

Personally, I tend to agree with Jeff. There's no money to be made by
porting a program, that you have invested many man-hours into, to a OS where
everything is expected to be free. It's like saying "Oh, i COULD make money
off it, but I don't feel like it." Admittedly, the Blender people DID
release their in-house animation/modelling system for free, but then, they
also make their money off of OTHER products. As far as I know, SoftTronics
only makes one product, that being Moray.

Twyst================================
EFnet and NewNet #povray Channel Operator
Website: http://planet1.v-wave.com/twyst
E-Mail: twy### [at] v-wavecom
=====================================

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Hi Twyst, you recently wrote in moray.win:
>> As far as I know, SoftTronics only makes one product, that 
>> being Moray.
Well, if that were true, Moray wouldn't have gotten past the V1.0
mark<g>. We're a software house and make our living by writing custom
software for banks, insurance companies, museums and anyone else that
needs special software. Mostly quite boring stuff, so Moray is a
welcome change, but unfortunately cannot keep us alive, which is why
new versions take so damn long to do.

- Lutz
  email : lut### [at] stmuccom
  CIS   : 100023,2006
  Web   : http://www.stmuc.com/moray

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Twyst wrote:
> 
*snip*
> Personally, I tend to agree with Jeff. There's no money to be made by
> porting a program, that you have invested many man-hours into, to a OS where
> everything is expected to be free. It's like saying "Oh, i COULD make money

Ok, I just want to clear this up. Most Linux people DON'T expect everything written
for
linux to be free. The people who say that any software written for the Linux platform
should be free, are the same people who will never pay for shareware. They're the
people
who want everything to be free, even the roof over their head. You can make money off
the
Linux platform, but there is one very important thing you have to remember when you
write
commercial software for Linux: It has to very well done. A good example is
Accelx(www.xig.com). They write a commercial X server for Linux and various other
unices
and a large number of their customers are Linux users, because their X server is fast,
stable and well written.

> off it, but I don't feel like it." Admittedly, the Blender people DID
> release their in-house animation/modelling system for free, but then, they
> also make their money off of OTHER products. As far as I know, SoftTronics
> only makes one product, that being Moray.
> 

The people who released blender plan to make money off it by selling a printed manual
and
a "Pro" version...very similar to Digi-Art.

Cheers, Matthew

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