Nieminen Mika wrote:

>   PLugins, plugins, plugins, plugins... Everyone requests plugins. Everyone
> makes plugins. Hundreds of plugins, thousands, millions... And moray grows
> and grows and grows...
>
>   Instead of making a plugin for each simple task (like the random placement
> of objects), wouldn't it be a better idea to allow the user to write little
> povray scripts to do the task instead?

If I could write little POVray scripts, I wouldn't need Moray! :)

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I can only speak for myself...I could write little POVray scripts, but I would
still want Moray to visually model my scene.

Adding little scripts could definitely fill the holes in Moray (i.e. inserting
objects from include files, adding if/then statements, placiing objects along the
curve exp(x^2)*cos(x^3)-tan(5), accessing features in patched versions of POVray
etc.)

Simon de Vet wrote:

> If I could write little POVray scripts, I wouldn't need Moray! :)

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Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
> Alexander Enzmann <xan### [at] mitreorg> wrote:
> : And limit Moray to POV-Ray?  I like the fact that Moray has been opened
> : up to support generic export capabilities.  If you do nothing but
> : POV-Ray scripts, you can't ever take advantage of anything but POV-Ray.
> 
>   Did I say that the scripting should be the only way to create objects?

No - my comment was about, "Instead of making a plugin for each simple
task (like the random placement of objects), wouldn't it be a better
idea to allow the user to write little povray scripts to do the task
instead?".

Scripting is just fine.  However, to keep Moray as general as possible,
writing "povray scripts..." seems limiting.  It seems to me that POV-Ray
itself has provided a way for you to write little scripts as macros. 
Open up MorayPOV.INC in notepad, write your macro, and off you go.

Xander

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Alexander Enzmann <xan### [at] mitreorg> wrote:
: Scripting is just fine.  However, to keep Moray as general as possible,
: writing "povray scripts..." seems limiting.

  This sentence looks quite contradictory to me.
  Why _adding_ a scripting feature would be _limiting_ moray? I don't
understand.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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I believe his objection is to adding a *POV-RAY* scripting feature. That
would limit moray's new ability to export to formats other than .pov, which
was, again, 'Xander's original objection, IIRC.

Nieminen Mika wrote:

> Alexander Enzmann <xan### [at] mitreorg> wrote:
> : Scripting is just fine.  However, to keep Moray as general as possible,
> : writing "povray scripts..." seems limiting.
>
>   This sentence looks quite contradictory to me.
>   Why _adding_ a scripting feature would be _limiting_ moray? I don't
> understand.
>
> --
> main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
> ):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/



--
You Know You've Been Raytracing Too Long When:
 You purchase Toy Story for inspiration- Then do a better version for fun.

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I think it could be done in such a way as to not be limited to POV.

As simple script-editor-tool that allows you to add a script as an object in
your Moray scene.  The script object could have parameters that tell Moray
where to insert the script within the renderer output.  If the plug-in allowed
for scripts to be written without care for specific syntax, why couldn't that
scripting information be included in the output, regardless of renderer.  And
if the plug-in could allow scripts the be written WITH POV syntax in mind, then
perhaps a plug-in could be written for other renderers as well, such as BMRT.

I don't see how such a plug-in would limit the use of Moray.  If anything, a
generic scripting tool would allow Moray to be that much more useful, and
renderer-specific scripting tools would do that much more again to make Moray
one of the most, if not the most, useful tools in our raytrace toolbox.

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Nieminen Mika wrote:
> 
>   Why _adding_ a scripting feature would be _limiting_ moray? I don't
> understand.
> 

I think it was the "Instead of..." part that worried him.

-Nathan

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Nathan Kopp <Nat### [at] koppcom> wrote:
: I think it was the "Instead of..." part that worried him.

  That "instead of making a plugin for each simple task" was not meant as
"remove the plugin feature and replace it with a scripting feature". It was
meant as "if you had a scripting language, you wouldn't be needing to ask
or make a plugin for each simple task but you could just write a little
script to do it instead, thus making moray a lot more powerful tool".
  You could still make plugins if you wanted (and sometimes you have to,
because you can't do _every_ task with the scripting language (for example
some animation plugin or whatever)), but with a scripting language you could
achieve simple tasks easyly, use (povray) features not implemented in moray
(like adding a julia fractal or whatever), etc.

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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Its not just that- if, for example, someone did write an export to another
renderer, wouldn't it be better to have a general scripting language instead of
a POV-Ray based one? I do not object, one bit, to a general scripting
language(what about something like C? very well documented, and all you'd have
to do is have seperate headers or something. It would allow most people to use,
or write, simple to complex plugins, without worrying about owning M$VC++ and
knowing things like MFC. If it was C++, each new 'plugin' could be a class,
requiring how to save it(not required if it is a normal primitive), how to
represent its wireframe(see the last note), how to export it and what it
is(perhaps in a very generic way. Like a .raw file or something-just objects and
coordinates) and whatever else is needed. Overall, it might be pretty good if it
were a POV-script, but much better if it were something general.

Nieminen Mika wrote:

> Nathan Kopp <Nat### [at] koppcom> wrote:
> : I think it was the "Instead of..." part that worried him.
>
>   That "instead of making a plugin for each simple task" was not meant as
> "remove the plugin feature and replace it with a scripting feature". It was
> meant as "if you had a scripting language, you wouldn't be needing to ask
> or make a plugin for each simple task but you could just write a little
> script to do it instead, thus making moray a lot more powerful tool".
>   You could still make plugins if you wanted (and sometimes you have to,
> because you can't do _every_ task with the scripting language (for example
> some animation plugin or whatever)), but with a scripting language you could
> achieve simple tasks easyly, use (povray) features not implemented in moray
> (like adding a julia fractal or whatever), etc.
>
> --
> main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
> ):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/



--
You Know You've Been Raytracing Too Long When:
 You purchase Toy Story for inspiration- Then do a better version for fun.

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Alex Magidow <axi### [at] mninternet> wrote:
: Its not just that- if, for example, someone did write an export to another
: renderer, wouldn't it be better to have a general scripting language instead of
: a POV-Ray based one?

  How do you use povray features not implemented in moray (for example some
objects, colefax's include files, etc)?

-- 
main(i,_){for(_?--i,main(i+2,"FhhQHFIJD|FQTITFN]zRFHhhTBFHhhTBFysdB"[i]
):5;i&&_>1;printf("%s",_-70?_&1?"[]":" ":(_=0,"\n")),_/=2);} /*- Warp -*/

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