In article <gqsl6s7o2t00$.k7wm2iponco7$.dlg@40tude.net> , corncrake 
<not### [at] nospamntlworldcom>  wrote:

>> This feature doesn't exist in Moray 3.3.
>
> Oh dear !
> but mesh2 is a povray format, is it ? maybe too new though ?? ,,,
> Is there no 'front-end' manipulator for them ?

Maybe the answer from Txemi was not clear enough in this regard:

Moray does not read POV-Ray scene files, it only writes them.  "mesh2" is
not a POV-Ray format of any kind, it is simply a "mesh2" scene object in a
POV-Ray scene file.

    Thorsten

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On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 09:37:56 +0100, Support tb-software wrote:
> 3DWin (www.tb-software.com) exports to Moray 3.3 (mdl + mesh2)

Thanks, downloading it noqw,
looks interesting.

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On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 12:30:44 +0100, Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> Maybe the answer from Txemi was not clear enough in this regard:
> 
> Moray does not read POV-Ray scene files, it only writes them.  "mesh2" is
> not a POV-Ray format of any kind, it is simply a "mesh2" scene object in a
> POV-Ray scene file.

Perhaps I was not clear enough in my original post,
I am new to 3d ( so I dont understand which program handles what file
format and for what purpose )

I have downloaded Moray ( because I thought that it was going to be a
program which would allow me to view (round X, Y, and Z) and manipulate
(add/remove surfaces and view and paint texture)  my 3d models, all under
keyboard rotate/zoom/add/remove/etc  (just like Moray does in fact !!)
In my poor un-enlightened state I presumed that povray was a scripted
scenepainting/tracing program and would not do this for me, so I did not
download it, was that wrong, will it ?

I have been given some simple models to start on but they are in .mesh2
format, so I was trying to find a program to do the above with them.

This being a newsserver for a dedicated purpose, and this group being
dedicated to Moray, I guessed that I might upset peeps if I asked a general
" Help i need a program" question !

So, it looks like Moray, along with Milkshape and Zmodeler (these being
the only other progs that I have found so far **) will all manipulate
models in the manner I desire. But not in the format which I have
been given :-(

(**) and 3dmax, but that costs a fortune and I am only doing this for
a bit of fun at home and for self-education-keep-my-brain-alive !
If I expected to make a money/career out of it then that would be
different.

Does that help ?
Malcolm.

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On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 09:37:56 +0100, Support tb-software wrote:
> 3DWin (www.tb-software.com) exports to Moray 3.3 (mdl + mesh2)

Arrrgghhh ! 
"the export of the demo version may miss ervery 5th vertex/edge/face"
 !!!! Does this mean what i think it means, Roussian roulette ?
So a saved model comes out with bits missing ? Or am I being daft ?

I did say I was new to all this !

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In article <1gezmhe3x259w$.1umnlzry5x8kw$.dlg@40tude.net>, 
not### [at] nospamntlworldcom says...
> I have downloaded Moray ( because I thought that it was going to be a
> program which would allow me to view (round X, Y, and Z) and manipulate
> (add/remove surfaces and view and paint texture)  my 3d models, all under
> keyboard rotate/zoom/add/remove/etc  (just like Moray does in fact !!)
> In my poor un-enlightened state I presumed that povray was a scripted
> scenepainting/tracing program and would not do this for me, so I did not
> download it, was that wrong, will it ?
> 

Actually.. Now I am a bit confused. lol What are you using these models 
with?

POVRay is as you say a scripted tracing program, but Moray was designed 
primarily to generate scenes for it. While there may be export plugins or 
other such facilities for other applications, its main purpose is still 
to generate the scene files to be used by POVRay and some things work 
differently in other programs or flat out don't exist. A good example is 
textures, which are implemented quite differently in nearly all other 
rendering programs. This means that you can manipulate the scene and the 
like inside Moray, there may be problems generating the scene files to be 
used to actually generate the final image if you are using something 
other than POVRay to do that.

Note however that I haven't tried a version of Moray since they first 
introduced the OpenGL views and it ran slow, tended to crash and didn't 
really impress me much in that version, since I wanted non-wireframe 
views specifically for precise positioning and CSG, neither one of which 
worked. I haven't checked to see what the latest version actually offers.

Also.. Referring to one of your other posts:
> Arrrgghhh ! 
> "the export of the demo version may miss ervery 5th vertex/edge/face"
> !!!! Does this mean what i think it means, Roussian roulette ?
> So a saved model comes out with bits missing ? Or am I being daft ?

This is intentional. The idea is to show you what the program can do, 
within limits, not let you use it for free. Thus the demo version will 
randomly 'eat' every fifth vertex/edge/face to make it difficult to use 
it without buying the full version.

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On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 12:55:09 -0700, Patrick Elliott wrote:
> Actually.. Now I am a bit confused. lol What are you using these models 
> with?

LOL ! Indeed :) I didn't want to confuse the issue any more than needed,
so, do you really want to know ? chuckle ! fasten your seat belt,
take a deep breath ,,,
A. N. Other has decided to make (re-make) a version of the old Acorn/BBC-B
classic "Elite" and for some reason, known only to himself at this stage,
has decided to use the .mesh2 format to store the data for the shape of
the models. The textures being stored in 256x256 .bmp
I thought that this would be a good excuse for me to learn the world of
3d modeling,,, now I am beginning to wish I had not ! groan!

Never mind, as my old Gran used to say " Malcolm, if you want a job doing,
then do it yourself !"  So, I have dusted off my DevC++ and have just
completed ConsoleStage 1 of Malcolm's OpenGL Modeling Prog. !!
He has promised his own model development environment, in the fullness of
time, but that will be after he has the main thing done. So, we'll see who
gets there first now !

> but Moray was designed 
> primarily to generate scenes for it.

That was probably where I went wrong, I thought it was to make models and
shapes to go into scenes.

Phew !!!
....
Now then re-fasten your seat belt cos you'll need it for this next bit :

> Also.. Referring to one of your other posts:
>> "the export of the demo version may miss ervery 5th vertex/edge/face"

> This is intentional. The idea is to show you what the program can do, 
> within limits, not let you use it for free. Thus the demo version will 
> randomly 'eat' every fifth vertex/edge/face to make it difficult to use 
> it without buying the full version.

It seemed very odd to me that, in a ng devoted to povray/moray,
a lead would be given to a commercial product and that the nature
of the cripple would not be stated 'up front' to save the wasting
of time, both in downloading and in prowling the site, to find the nature
of the beast.
Where would Povrayers be now if that same attitude had prvailed in Povray ?
If I was interested in making money I would no doubt sell my programs,
I choose to give them away, sometimes in the hope of a pint of beer in 
return.
If I was in ,,
oh well never mind,
it isnt worth it ,,,

Good grief, all I wanted was to save having to reinvent a wheel if someone
was already using/manipulating mesh2s.
Sorry I asked.

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On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 12:17:41 +0000, corncrake
<not### [at] nospamntlworldcom> wrote:

>On Sun, 15 Dec 2002 09:37:56 +0100, Support tb-software wrote:
>> 3DWin (www.tb-software.com) exports to Moray 3.3 (mdl + mesh2)
>
>Arrrgghhh ! 
>"the export of the demo version may miss ervery 5th vertex/edge/face"
> !!!! Does this mean what i think it means, Roussian roulette ?
>So a saved model comes out with bits missing ? Or am I being daft ?
>
>I did say I was new to all this !

The povray/moray export does not eat every 5. face (it states "may").
It "may" valid for other export formats. Please check your self.
Nevertheless the export of the demo does not contain any textures
(grey colors only).

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What I still don't understand is what is the .mesh2 format you're
talking about. Is it a file format? If so, how does it look?


Peter Popov ICQ : 15002700
Personal e-mail : pet### [at] vipbg
TAG      e-mail : pet### [at] tagpovrayorg

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corncrake wrote:
> A. N. Other has decided to make (re-make) a version of the old Acorn/BBC-B
> classic "Elite" and for some reason, known only to himself at this stage,
> has decided to use the .mesh2 format to store the data for the shape of
> the models. The textures being stored in 256x256 .bmp

Hmm, I was able to find .raw versions of the ships from Elite...have a
Cobra Mk III, myself...^_^

A very helpful resource for you would be Mackay's Witch Space, at
http://mackayj.doosh.net/

-- 
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.scifi-fantasy.com

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GFA dpu- s: a?-- C++(++++) U P? L E--- W++(+++)>$
N++ o? K- w(+) O? M-(--) V? PS+(+++) PE(--) Y(--)
PGP-(--) t* 5++>+++++ X+ R* tv+ b++(+++) DI
D++(---) G(++) e*>++ h+ !r--- !y--
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Timothy R. Cook wrote:
> Hmm, I was able to find .raw versions of the ships from Elite...have a
> Cobra Mk III, myself...^_^

Actually the site has .vrml models, but those are easy to covert to .raw
whic Moray can read.

-- 
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.scifi-fantasy.com

-----BEGIN GEEK CODE BLOCK-----
Version: 3.12
GFA dpu- s: a?-- C++(++++) U P? L E--- W++(+++)>$
N++ o? K- w(+) O? M-(--) V? PS+(+++) PE(--) Y(--)
PGP-(--) t* 5++>+++++ X+ R* tv+ b++(+++) DI
D++(---) G(++) e*>++ h+ !r--- !y--
------END GEEK CODE BLOCK------

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