Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> You shouldn't be storing any modifiable configuration information under
> C:Program Files.  That's for, you know, program files. ;-)

So why does the POV-Ray install put that file there?  There is an "Edit
resolution INI file" option in the Tools menu which I assume the makers
wanted us to be able to use.

> You are. You just don't know it.

I wouldn't doubt that.  I haven't fully understood one of Microsoft's
operating systems since MS-DOS.

> I don't know what that sentence means. Which "command line"? You mean
> invoking POV-Ray's render engine with command-line arguments? I don't
> know.  I would doubt it, somehow, unless perhaps it's trying to write
> into the program-files directory as it renders or something.

By command line I meant +H800 +W800 +FN +A -J +KFI1 +KFF36 +KI0 +KF1 +KC.
But I have since found that +H800 +W800 +FN +A -J by itself does work.

And if POV-Ray were trying to write into the program-files directory
shouldn't it give you an error message?  Why just say "Not Responding".
Then again this error message:

http://www.wwwmwww.com/images/VistaError.png

Said nothing about needing to be ran as an adminstrator or that files in the
program-files directory couldn't be writen to.  Why say check path and file
name when notepad had no problem opening the file?  I feel like screaming
at someone at Microsoft.

> Just be aware that Vista is different from previous versions in that
> respect, because no matter how hard Microsoft tried to get people to
> treat it as a secure multi-user platform, they refused for various
> reasons. :-)

Is the "they" you are refering to Microsoft or me?  I don't know enough
about secure multi-user platforms to know how to treat one.  I'm simply
trying to do what the POV-Ray documentation tells me should work.  I don't
want to have to make things any more complicated then I have to.

Pulling my hair out...
Carl

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Carl wrote:
 > So why does the POV-Ray install put that file there?

Because it is, in its own way, slightly broken in that sense. Just like 
huge numbers of other Windows programs. Indeed, so many huge numbers of 
other Windows programs that Microsoft has to rewrite the file system out 
from under them, in several ways, to keep them from messing up the OS. :-)

 > And if POV-Ray were trying to write into the program-files directory
 > shouldn't it give you an error message?  Why just say "Not Responding".

Depends on what it does when it fails. If there's one task running the 
render and another watching for progress messages, and the render task 
fails unexpectedly, then this might happen. But I'm just guessing.

 > say check path and file
 > name when notepad had no problem opening the file?

Because notepad is aware of the new changes to how the file system is 
redirected, since it's from Microsoft.

 >> Just be aware that Vista is different from previous versions in that
 >> respect, because no matter how hard Microsoft tried to get people to
 >> treat it as a secure multi-user platform, they refused for various
 >> reasons. :-)
 >
 > Is the "they" you are refering to Microsoft or me?

"They" is all the people who write code that stores per-user 
configuration files in the Program Files directory tree. "They" is the 
programmers who overwrite system DLLs with their own. "They" is the 
people who complain that Vista keeps popping up "are you sure Yes/No" 
boxes when they try to do stuff, indicating they're still running 
everyday programs as administrator. Etc.  Not necessarily you at all.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     His kernel fu is strong.
     He studied at the Shao Linux Temple.

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Carl wrote:
> I'm simply
> trying to do what the POV-Ray documentation tells me should work.  I don't
> want to have to make things any more complicated then I have to.
> 
> Pulling my hair out...

You bought Windows Vista before Service Pack 1 has been released. -- Sorry,
no warranty for beta operating systems ;-)

	Thorsten

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Thorsten Froehlich wrote:
> You bought Windows Vista before Service Pack 1 has been released.

It's not Windows Version Six.  It's Windows Version Six Point Zero Point 
Zero.


-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     His kernel fu is strong.
     He studied at the Shao Linux Temple.

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Because notepad is aware of the new changes to how the file system is
> redirected, since it's from Microsoft.

All the more reason it should have been able to give a meaningful error
message.  Instead of saying check path and file name it could have said
something about why it couldn't save the file in that directory.  I knew
the path and file name were correct and so did notepad as it was able to
open the file.

Carl

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Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
> You bought Windows Vista before Service Pack 1 has been released. -- Sorry,
> no warranty for beta operating systems ;-)
>
>  Thorsten

Ok... I see the ;-) so I assume there isn't a Service Pack 1 for Vista yet?
I just got this PC and it came with Vista installed.  My previous PC was
still running Windows ME so I'm certainly no operating system guru.  Is the
official responce then that POV-Ray can't be used to make animations with
Vista?

Carl

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Carl wrote:
> Thorsten Froehlich <tho### [at] trfde> wrote:
>> You bought Windows Vista before Service Pack 1 has been released. -- Sorry,
>> no warranty for beta operating systems ;-)
>>
>>  Thorsten
> 
> Ok... I see the ;-) so I assume there isn't a Service Pack 1 for Vista yet?
> I just got this PC and it came with Vista installed.  My previous PC was
> still running Windows ME so I'm certainly no operating system guru.  Is the
> official responce then that POV-Ray can't be used to make animations with
> Vista?

No, certainly not. An official response does not exist!

However, Dell just announced they will ship systems with XP again as an
option. I leave it to you to guess why they would make that move ...

As for a service pack, there is the saying to never deploy a new M$
operating system before the first service pack is out - usually happens
within a year from release of so. Rumor has it M$ plans a service pack later
this year.

In the meantime, I am sure there must lots of tutorials on the net already
with ways to get Vista to stop annoying its users with broken pseudo
security measures. In short, I am sure there is a way to turn Vistas alerts off.

Believe me, you won't be less secure either way. Virus authors already have
found ways around the new "security" as reports indicate :-(  So all the
"security" does is keep you from using your computer.

Good luck!

	Thorsten

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Carl wrote:
> the path and file name were correct and so did notepad as it was able to
> open the file.

What you don't know is what file Notepad actually opened. Do a search on 
your entire disk to see if you have more than one file with the same 
name? I don't know if Vista renames files when you try to write them 
with old APIs to places those APIs now disallow you from writing, tho 
... maybe search your drive for a file containing something fairly 
unique within that file?

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     His kernel fu is strong.
     He studied at the Shao Linux Temple.

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Darren New wrote:
> "They" is all the people who write code that stores per-user 
> configuration files in the Program Files directory tree. "They" is the 

POV-Ray's windows code hails from the Windows 95 days (actually even before
that; we originally supported Win32s under Windows 3.1). We still support
Windows 95 (though I am thinking of making that go away). Often these sort
of issues are the legacy of how we were forced to do things 'back in the
day'. It's all well and good for Microsoft to come out with new OS's (hey,
it makes them more money), but us programmers still have to support the
older ones for a long time.

That's not to say it can't be fixed, just that it involves doing things
differently according to what version of Windows is involved, which is more
work for us; hence, it doesn't always happen until it becomes an issue.

We have 3.62 coming out shortly so there's an opportunity for it to be
fixed. If I can get hold of a copy of vista I will check these issues out.
It may well be that it is time to move what config must be in the
filesystem to per-user directories (except on versions of windows that
don't have the concept of course) and keep most other stuff in the registry.

-- Chris

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Chris Cason wrote:
> POV-Ray's windows code hails from the Windows 95 days 

Just to be clear, I didn't intend to be critical. I was merely 
explaining what the problem was likely to be with Vista. It tries to 
compensate for old programs that stick per-user config data in a 
per-machine location, and it's very confusing the way it does it, 
because it essentially lies to the old program about where the file 
actually is.

-- 
   Darren New / San Diego, CA, USA (PST)
     His kernel fu is strong.
     He studied at the Shao Linux Temple.

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