On 15-1-2010 21:38, nemesis wrote:
> andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>> to try to port to one specific architecture. Particularly if that is not
>> supported by the standard setup of a typical POV user.
> 
> GPU's are part of every computer nowadays whether you use them or not.
> 

GPUs are, but do they support CUDA or similar*?
Of the three machines here that are on, one does (GeForce 8800GTS) one 
doesn't (GeForce FX 5200) and one I don't know (a fairly recent HP laptop).

*) Actually the real question is: will they when you have finished your 
port.

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On 15-1-2010 21:33, nemesis wrote:
> andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>> On 15-1-2010 2:31, nemesis wrote:
>>> now tell me:  please say you're a hottie german blondie and not a fat
>>> old fart! :D
>> Sabrina: My sincere apologies for having been the one who brought this
>> upon you. I should have realized that someone who did not understand
>> that 'dear' and 'sweetie' are inappropriate in this group, would also
>> not understand that it is not done to ask for personal information.
> 
> bit rusty that humor detector of yours, huh?
> 

I don't think so. I really think you should not have asked that. Whether 
jokingly or not. I also know that I would feel uncomfortable when I 
would have been in his place, so that is why I apologized for possibly 
having caused that (whether he would have felt the same way is immaterial).

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andrel wrote:
> On 15-1-2010 2:31, nemesis wrote:
>> now tell me:  please say you're a hottie german blondie and not a fat
>> old fart! :D
> 
> Sabrina: My sincere apologies for having been the one who brought this
> upon you. I should have realized that someone who did not understand
> that 'dear' and 'sweetie' are inappropriate in this group, would also
> not understand that it is not done to ask for personal information.
> 

Apology accepted, though not needed, andrel. I have heard much worse
then 'sweetie' and 'dear' in various MMOs. You learn more about a person
by the words they choose to address others by, and the same verbal
jujitsu works.

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andrel wrote:
> On 15-1-2010 21:38, nemesis wrote:
>> andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>>> to try to port to one specific architecture. Particularly if that is not
>>> supported by the standard setup of a typical POV user.
>>
>> GPU's are part of every computer nowadays whether you use them or not.
>>
> 
> GPUs are, but do they support CUDA or similar*?

they will once code is complete.  By the time povray 3.7 was started, 
the thought of running raytracing on GPU was a distant dream.  Looks 
like hardware evolves far faster than software.  You can certainly tell 
that by how slow paradigms change and new languages with radically new 
ideas flourish (motivated by hardware changes anyway)...

> Of the three machines here that are on, one does (GeForce 8800GTS) one 
> doesn't (GeForce FX 5200) and one I don't know (a fairly recent HP laptop).

The first is the only one that counts, since it's the most recent (and 
fairly old already BTW).  Laptops always use yesterday's technology.

We shouldn't have to wait for the iPhone to have a proper GPU to begin 
any such coding...

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Sabrina Kilian wrote:
> You learn more about a person
> by the words they choose to address others by

I hope you have learned that I'm a clown by heart.  I enjoy making 
people laugh.

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On 16-1-2010 15:58, nemesis wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>> On 15-1-2010 21:38, nemesis wrote:
>>> andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
>>>> to try to port to one specific architecture. Particularly if that is 
>>>> not
>>>> supported by the standard setup of a typical POV user.
>>>
>>> GPU's are part of every computer nowadays whether you use them or not.
>>>
>>
>> GPUs are, but do they support CUDA or similar*?
> 
> they will once code is complete.  

Ah, still young and naive. I have seen a lot of promising technology and 
software discontinued after a few years. I think it is highly like ( 
 >70% ) that this particular type of GPU programming will be obsolete in 
5 years time. Most probably replaced by an API where you don't know if 
software is running on a GPU or not, if I can have a guess. Because of 
backwards compatibility you know.

> By the time povray 3.7 was started, 
> the thought of running raytracing on GPU was a distant dream.  Looks 
> like hardware evolves far faster than software.  You can certainly tell 
> that by how slow paradigms change and new languages with radically new 
> ideas flourish (motivated by hardware changes anyway)...
> 
>> Of the three machines here that are on, one does (GeForce 8800GTS) one 
>> doesn't (GeForce FX 5200) and one I don't know (a fairly recent HP 
>> laptop).
> 
> The first is the only one that counts, since it's the most recent (and 
> fairly old already BTW).  Laptops always use yesterday's technology.

The laptop is the newest by far. The reason I have that 8800 is that I 
don't do much things that require a fast graphics card (mainly signal 
processing and some POV if I get a chance. Blender is the only thing 
that might benefit from a better card.). I decided not to spend money on 
that when I bought the machine and wait until I really needed one. 
Assuming that by then I could get more performance for less money.

> We shouldn't have to wait for the iPhone to have a proper GPU to begin 
> any such coding...

Ok, be my guest. I'll wait and see what you come up with.

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On 16-1-2010 16:00, nemesis wrote:
> Sabrina Kilian wrote:
>> You learn more about a person
>> by the words they choose to address others by
> 
> I hope you have learned that I'm a clown by heart.  I enjoy making 
> people laugh.

Keep working on it, it does not come through on the internet, at least 
not for me.

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andrel wrote:
> On 16-1-2010 15:58, nemesis wrote:
>>> GPUs are, but do they support CUDA or similar*?
>>
>> they will once code is complete.  
> 
> Ah, still young and naive. I have seen a lot of promising technology and 
> software discontinued after a few years. I think it is highly like ( 
>  >70% ) that this particular type of GPU programming will be obsolete in 
> 5 years time.

I look at heavyweights in the industry at large and they seem to think 
differently.  Either you are right and they will all be broke by 
investing on a fad or you are

> Most probably replaced by an API where you don't know if 
> software is running on a GPU or not, if I can have a guess.

Like heterogeneous multiprocessing with OpenCL?  Agreed.

>> The first is the only one that counts, since it's the most recent (and 
>> fairly old already BTW).  Laptops always use yesterday's technology.
> 
> The laptop is the newest by far.

It has a newer card?  I don't like laptops precisely because you pay too 
much to use old tech (that are finally miniaturized enough to fit and 
consume less power).

>> We shouldn't have to wait for the iPhone to have a proper GPU to begin 
>> any such coding...
> 
> Ok, be my guest. I'll wait and see what you come up with.

yes, keep waiting.

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andrel wrote:
> On 16-1-2010 16:00, nemesis wrote:
>> Sabrina Kilian wrote:
>>> You learn more about a person
>>> by the words they choose to address others by
>>
>> I hope you have learned that I'm a clown by heart.  I enjoy making 
>> people laugh.
> 
> Keep working on it, it does not come through on the internet, at least 
> not for me.

sadly, my humorous side is often a victim of my troll side and thus 
don't get as much recognition, specially when people are fed up already.

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nemesis wrote:
> andrel wrote:
>> GPUs are, but do they support CUDA or similar*?
> 
> they will once code is complete.  By the time povray 3.7 was started,
> the thought of running raytracing on GPU was a distant dream.  Looks
> like hardware evolves far faster than software.  You can certainly tell
> that by how slow paradigms change and new languages with radically new
> ideas flourish (motivated by hardware changes anyway)...
> 

Right, so, which should be supported? CUDA, Stream, OpenCL, or do we
just do things with shaders and hack tricks in DirectX and OpenGL? Do we
go lower than that, skip the OS, and make POV-Ray something that runs at
a very low level, accessing the hardware in assembly just to get every
bit of speed and capability from the architectures? Support your answer
with examples of benefits and potential problems that will be faced
along the development path. Discuss the impact that future GPU
capabilities, such as shorter buses, integration into the CPU, and
branching, will offer.

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