Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> alphaQuad <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote:
> > Yes you have a point, at least when one of the parties feels threatened by new
> > ideas. The reason they feel threatened is that their beliefs, in which they are
> > not very secure, are threatened. The next step is realizing their own
> > gullibility. Few if any are willing to face such a weakness and vulnerability.
> > Being loving means vulnerability.
>
> > So you can see how an unloving person would easily jump to wanting to kill the
> > thread saying that it can only cause flame wars. Don't worry I am sitting right
> > here with a fire extinguisher.
>
> > If all were secure in their beliefs it could only be an interesting and humorous
> > discussion.
>
>   Your trolling is way too transparent. Good try, but you have still way
> to go before becoming a true pro.
>
> --
>                                                           - Warp

Try something relevant, the true art of trollism, derail, yes you are a pro at
it and at negativity, loving people can learn nothing from you, lol

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Suppose I should have added .... sssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh sh sh sh, the sound of
the fire extinguisher. Warp is way too easy to deal with. No one has a relevant
challenge?

Guess it would be like challenging the Sun.

OK, on to the relevance then. Beliefs are just that, something you want to
believe but for which you have no personal experience that would justify it.

What's greater then belief? When you KNOW from experience, you do in fact
actually know something. Belief is more like a faerie tale.

An atheist has beliefs and doesn't know anything. I am particularly interested
in these people, because of what I could show them. Call me vulnerable, or just
crazy, but if you only KNEW!!!!!!

LOVE LOVE LOVE

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"alphaQuad" <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote in message 
news:web.4a2c2e39d4479e563559bb670@news.povray.org...

> An atheist has beliefs and doesn't know anything. I am particularly 
> interested
> in these people, because of what I could show them. Call me vulnerable, or 
> just
> crazy, but if you only KNEW!!!!!!

     Then please tell.


> LOVE LOVE LOVE


   Love is good, and love is bad. Simple as that.


     ~Steve~

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alphaQuad wrote:
> What's greater then belief? 

What's greater than belief? How about "staying on your meds"?

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!

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On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 17:16:41 -0400, alphaQuad wrote:

> No one has a relevant
> challenge?
> 
> Guess it would be like challenging the Sun.

Alternative theory:  Nobody wants to talk to you about this.

The one thing that some of us have learned over the years is that 
engaging with you is a pointless exercise that eventually leads to you 
engaging in personal attacks.

This will be my only post to you in this thread.  I've marked your posts 
as "ignore" because of your past personal attacks against me and I will 
continue to leave your messages scored as "ignore" to remind me that it 
is pointless to engage in discussion with you.

Your general purpose here, as Warp said, is generally to troll-bait 
people into a position where you can engage in that type of personal 
attack behaviour.

Sorry, I'm not playing any more.

Jim

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On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 22:28:33 +0100, St. wrote:

>> crazy, but if you only KNEW!!!!!!
> 
>      Then please tell.

Gads, no, don't encourage him.

Jim

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Tim Attwood wrote:
>>> This kind of thread can cause no good.
>>
>> Just out of curiosity, and I ask this as an atheist asking an 
>> intelligent person of faith, do you think it's ever possible to have a 
>> useful discussion between disagreeing parties? :-)
>>
>> I find discussing it can be useful to me, not because it makes me 
>> change my mind or because I change someone else's mind, but because it 
>> lets me understand the other point of view better, and lets me deal 
>> with religion better.
> 
> Don't let the trolls bother you.
> People that do good things are good, just like Jesus is good.
> People that do bad things are evil, just like the devil who has
> done bad things since the beginning.
> That's why Jesus came: to destroy the devil's works.
> When someone has love in his heart, he wants to do good
> things, but when someone has angry hatred inside, he wants
> to do evil things. That's why God sent Jesus, because he
> loves us, and that love frees us from the bonds of hate and
> death.

You should have left off with the first sentence. The rest is just 
argument ad hominem. I.e., the, entirely unsupported, and false, 
assertion, in contradiction, to all evidence, that people like Samuel 
Clemens, lacking belief in a god, must, in nearly all cases, be "evil", 
while the dozens of priests in Ireland, recently found to have beaten 
and molested kids, but believing in god, must be automatically more 
likely to be "good". Sorry, but... belief doesn't make people good. On 
the contrary, it simply gives evil people a holy book they can quote 
mine to find bits and pieces to use to "justify" being evil, while still 
imagining that "god" wants them to do it. Non-believers have a much more 
direct excuse, they tend to imagine themselves untouchable, too smart to 
be stopped, and don't give a frack about other people. They don't try to 
excuse their actions by claiming someone "else" told them to do it. It 
is a whole hell of a lot easier to see the insanity and lack of 
compassion in such people, without the mask of "religious conviction" to 
hide the fact that it has jack to do with what any god or devil wants, 
and ***everything*** to do with what *they* want.

After all, even in "good" people, god always seems to want them to do 
"precisely" what they intended to do anyway, even when "other" good 
people think what they chose to do was inappropriate, wrong, or less 
godly that what "they" would have done. Odd how that works...

-- 
void main () {
   If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

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3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>

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alphaQuad wrote:
> OK, on to the relevance then. Beliefs are just that, something you want to
> believe but for which you have no personal experience that would justify it.
> 
> What's greater then belief? When you KNOW from experience, you do in fact
> actually know something. Belief is more like a faerie tale.
> 
> An atheist has beliefs and doesn't know anything. I am particularly interested
> in these people, because of what I could show them. Call me vulnerable, or just
> crazy, but if you only KNEW!!!!!!
> 
This is vastly ironic, coming from someone that, probably, like most, 
lump atheists into some homogeneous group that all agree with each other 
on "beliefs". Its also even more ironic in that you have

a) Belief that the Bible actual describes something that happened. 
Evidence to support it - your belief that you experienced god. The 
evidence of any of it really happening though... Hmm..

b) Belief that such belief makes you better. Ok.. then explain why it is 
that, other than a few exceptions, nearly all wars are religiously 
motivated, and some of the most vile evil people today "mask" themselves 
in your religion. There isn't a lot of evidence than believing in god 
does anything more than provide justification for those that are "sure" 
they are good, to do the things they want, certain in their own minds 
that everything they do is also what god wants. Too bad no one else 
would agree with all their choices, when made based on that criteria.

c) And this one is part and parcel of the denial of science in this 
country. The abject refusal, despite diseases like Alzheimer's, despite 
nearly half the population having to have glasses, despite people losing 
their hearing, despite the known effects of drugs on the mind, despite 
blindingly obvious cases of people seeing things, despite the known 
effects of fasting, which includes hallucinations, despite head injuries 
changing people's personalities, despite "several diseases" that are 
known to induce false religious experiences, and none of which even 
"gets to" the neurological evidence we have now... despite "all" of 
these things, people like alphaQuad imagine that "religious" experiences 
are in some "special" category, for which their "personal" direct 
experiencing of them is 100% infallible, and always right, and 
constitutes 100% undeniable *evidence* of the existence of the main 
character of their favorite faerie tale.

The argument holds about as much water, based on, "knowing from 
experience", as the fools looking for how DNA works by comparing it to 
Chinese language characters. Its pure gibberish. The brain is not 
reliable at telling if its "own" experiences are accurate, and even some 
*Christian* philosophers, and members of the church, over the last 2000 
years, including both Fancis Bacon, and St. Thomas Aquinas, managed to 
figure that out (or at least almost do so). Why is it that, especially 
in the US, there seems to be an absolute outbreak of people that *can't*?

-- 
void main () {

     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

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3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>

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Darren New wrote:
> I think it's only when you're *not* utterly convinced but feel like you 
> *should* be that the real fights start.
> 

Hmm. So.. If I showed up an insisted that 9/11 was a conspiracy by the 
US government, you would argue back based on "not being convinced, but 
feeling you should be"? lol Seriously, there is a false dichotomy in 
information, at times. A sense that, "All arguments have a solution that 
is some place between the two extremes." When everyone agrees with this, 
it can get heated, true, since there is often drastic differences in 
"where" they think the middle point is, but, in point of fact, its also 
possible to be absolutely convinced that, at least with respect to the 
specific subject, one side is simply 100% wrong, and just not seeing the 
picture. In the case of gods, this might be analogous to comparing the 
statements, "I think 9/11 conspiracists are all nuts", to, "I think 
anyone imagining that someone could 'ever' conspire to do anything is 
absurd." Sadly, when these discussions crop up, the theist side is 
arguing that atheists are arguing the later version, that "no" gods are 
possible, which isn't necessary true at all, and is actually side 
tracking the topic, while the atheist is usually arguing the former, 
that the theists "specific" god, or assertions about them, as invalid, 
unsupported, and/or even contradicted by their own sides actions, 
members, or contradictory statements about even the arguments being 
"made" by the theist on the subject.

The theist's argument invariably ends up all over the map, including 
making accusations of what the atheist "means", "thinks", "believes", 
which are neither expressed, stated, or implied by the atheists 
arguments, yet, one feels forced to chase the theist around, trying to 
cut them off and pin them back down on the original subject, never mind 
specific points. Its why "no one" in their right mind goes to a debate 
with such people, without clear rules in place before hand, as to what 
the subject is, and how far they will be allowed to "drift", before the 
host slaps them back into the right subject (if they even bother to do so).

-- 
void main () {
   If Schrödingers_cat is alive or version > 98 {
     if version = "Vista" {
       call slow_by_half();
       call DRM_everything();
     }
     call functional_code();
   }
   else
     call crash_windows();
}

<A HREF='http://www.daz3d.com/index.php?refid=16130551'>Get 3D Models, 
3D Content, and 3D Software at DAZ3D!</A>

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"St." <dot### [at] dotcom> wrote:
> "alphaQuad" <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote in message
> news:web.4a2c2e39d4479e563559bb670@news.povray.org...
>
> > An atheist has beliefs and doesn't know anything. I am particularly
> > interested
> > in these people, because of what I could show them. Call me vulnerable, or
> > just
> > crazy, but if you only KNEW!!!!!!
>
>      Then please tell.
>
>
> > LOVE LOVE LOVE
>
>
>    Love is good, and love is bad. Simple as that.
>
>
>      ~Steve~

"Love isn't blind, it's retarded" Chuck Lorre

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