On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 09:50:53 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Certainly if you take the position about all topics that your mind is
>> made up and that you'll never ever change your mind or be convinced
>> otherwise. ;-)
> 
> Except that on a lot of those topics, the discussion seems to get heated
> regardless. I can be utterly convinced that chinese take-out is the
> bee's knees, and you can think it's the most awful food around, and we
> won't have anyone shouting down the other about it.
> 
> I think it's only when you're *not* utterly convinced but feel like you
> *should* be that the real fights start.

Well, yeah, but I was recalling something that somebody said about their 
opinions never having been changed as a result of an online 
discussion. ;-)

Jim

Post a reply to this message

somebody <x### [at] ycom> wrote:
> I understand what you are saying, but just to be the devil's advocate,
> doesn't pretty much any kind of discussion on usenet follow the same
> pattern?

  Not really. Sometimes eg. someone makes a question about something he
doesn't know, and gets an answer.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

"gregjohn" <pte### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> "alphaQuad" <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote:
>
> I think you miss some details:
>> ... just so you can have a defining example ...
>
> I don't think this is very high on the list of reasons Jesus had to die.
>
>
> > ...a temper tantrum in the temple, the only case they had
> > on him and only excuse for the nailing ...
>
> Charges were blasphemy and treason.

Pilate said, (not word for word) something like, this is the same man that you
welcomed just so many days ago and now you want him killed, explain this
insanity to me. The one previously speaking didn't know what to say, another
steps forward and says, you have not heard the worst of his crimes, he broke
our Sabbath laws.

Now granted how vague that is, but coupled with the notion that no one wanted
him until the temple incident occurred and he was arrested 3 days afterwards,
it is an easy step to believe that if he just went on a picnic that day instead
of ...

The lesson is clear and obvious and the solution well delineated.

Blasphemy and treason seem to me to be after-thoughts, or some other term on the
tip of my tongue for which I fail to form words.

Post a reply to this message

Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > This kind of thread can cause no good.
>
> Just out of curiosity, and I ask this as an atheist asking an intelligent
> person of faith, do you think it's ever possible to have a useful discussion
> between disagreeing parties? :-)
>
> I find discussing it can be useful to me, not because it makes me change my
> mind or because I change someone else's mind, but because it lets me
> understand the other point of view better, and lets me deal with religion
> better.
>
> --
>    Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
>    There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!

Yes you have a point, at least when one of the parties feels threatened by new
ideas. The reason they feel threatened is that their beliefs, in which they are
not very secure, are threatened. The next step is realizing their own
gullibility. Few if any are willing to face such a weakness and vulnerability.
Being loving means vulnerability.

So you can see how an unloving person would easily jump to wanting to kill the
thread saying that it can only cause flame wars. Don't worry I am sitting right
here with a fire extinguisher.

If all were secure in their beliefs it could only be an interesting and humorous
discussion.

Post a reply to this message

alphaQuad <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote:
> Yes you have a point, at least when one of the parties feels threatened by new
> ideas. The reason they feel threatened is that their beliefs, in which they are
> not very secure, are threatened. The next step is realizing their own
> gullibility. Few if any are willing to face such a weakness and vulnerability.
> Being loving means vulnerability.

> So you can see how an unloving person would easily jump to wanting to kill the
> thread saying that it can only cause flame wars. Don't worry I am sitting right
> here with a fire extinguisher.

> If all were secure in their beliefs it could only be an interesting and humorous
> discussion.

  Your trolling is way too transparent. Good try, but you have still way
to go before becoming a true pro.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

Post a reply to this message

Warp <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote:
> alphaQuad <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote:
> > Yes you have a point, at least when one of the parties feels threatened by new
> > ideas. The reason they feel threatened is that their beliefs, in which they are
> > not very secure, are threatened. The next step is realizing their own
> > gullibility. Few if any are willing to face such a weakness and vulnerability.
> > Being loving means vulnerability.
>
> > So you can see how an unloving person would easily jump to wanting to kill the
> > thread saying that it can only cause flame wars. Don't worry I am sitting right
> > here with a fire extinguisher.
>
> > If all were secure in their beliefs it could only be an interesting and humorous
> > discussion.
>
>   Your trolling is way too transparent. Good try, but you have still way
> to go before becoming a true pro.
>
> --
>                                                           - Warp

Try something relevant, the true art of trollism, derail, yes you are a pro at
it and at negativity, loving people can learn nothing from you, lol

Post a reply to this message

Suppose I should have added .... sssssssshhhhhhhhhhhhhh sh sh sh, the sound of
the fire extinguisher. Warp is way too easy to deal with. No one has a relevant
challenge?

Guess it would be like challenging the Sun.

OK, on to the relevance then. Beliefs are just that, something you want to
believe but for which you have no personal experience that would justify it.

What's greater then belief? When you KNOW from experience, you do in fact
actually know something. Belief is more like a faerie tale.

An atheist has beliefs and doesn't know anything. I am particularly interested
in these people, because of what I could show them. Call me vulnerable, or just
crazy, but if you only KNEW!!!!!!

LOVE LOVE LOVE

Post a reply to this message

"alphaQuad" <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote in message 
news:web.4a2c2e39d4479e563559bb670@news.povray.org...

> An atheist has beliefs and doesn't know anything. I am particularly 
> interested
> in these people, because of what I could show them. Call me vulnerable, or 
> just
> crazy, but if you only KNEW!!!!!!

     Then please tell.


> LOVE LOVE LOVE


   Love is good, and love is bad. Simple as that.


     ~Steve~

Post a reply to this message

alphaQuad wrote:
> What's greater then belief? 

What's greater than belief? How about "staying on your meds"?

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!

Post a reply to this message

On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 17:16:41 -0400, alphaQuad wrote:

> No one has a relevant
> challenge?
> 
> Guess it would be like challenging the Sun.

Alternative theory:  Nobody wants to talk to you about this.

The one thing that some of us have learned over the years is that 
engaging with you is a pointless exercise that eventually leads to you 
engaging in personal attacks.

This will be my only post to you in this thread.  I've marked your posts 
as "ignore" because of your past personal attacks against me and I will 
continue to leave your messages scored as "ignore" to remind me that it 
is pointless to engage in discussion with you.

Your general purpose here, as Warp said, is generally to troll-bait 
people into a position where you can engage in that type of personal 
attack behaviour.

Sorry, I'm not playing any more.

Jim

Post a reply to this message