andrel wrote:
> So in general I am all for discussions about faith. I haven't seen this 
> movie but what I heard about it seemed not to add anything to any 
> discussion whatsoever. 

My understanding of the *movie* is that it was more art than religion in 
intention. E.g., it's in Aramaic so as to have a recorded body of the 
language for after people forget how to pronounce it, etc.  I think in a 
movie like this, you're not going to convince anyone one way or another. :-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!

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On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 16:10:35 -0600, somebody wrote:

> "Warp" <war### [at] tagpovrayorg> wrote in message
> news:4a2ac6ab@news.povray.org...
> 
> [...]
>> This kind of thread can cause no good. For people who have the same
>> world view as you it will simply be preaching to the choir, and to
>> people with the opposite view it will simply be a red cloth which will
>> cause useless arguments.
> 
> I understand what you are saying, but just to be the devil's advocate,
> doesn't pretty much any kind of discussion on usenet follow the same
> pattern? I think the point of online discussions is to simply vent,
> rather than try to convert people.

Certainly if you take the position about all topics that your mind is 
made up and that you'll never ever change your mind or be convinced 
otherwise. ;-)

Jim

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>> This kind of thread can cause no good.
>
> Just out of curiosity, and I ask this as an atheist asking an intelligent 
> person of faith, do you think it's ever possible to have a useful 
> discussion between disagreeing parties? :-)
>
> I find discussing it can be useful to me, not because it makes me change 
> my mind or because I change someone else's mind, but because it lets me 
> understand the other point of view better, and lets me deal with religion 
> better.

Don't let the trolls bother you.
People that do good things are good, just like Jesus is good.
People that do bad things are evil, just like the devil who has
done bad things since the beginning.
That's why Jesus came: to destroy the devil's works.
When someone has love in his heart, he wants to do good
things, but when someone has angry hatred inside, he wants
to do evil things. That's why God sent Jesus, because he
loves us, and that love frees us from the bonds of hate and
death.

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On Sat, 6 Jun 2009 16:13:48 -0600, "somebody" <x### [at] ycom> wrote:

>
>"andrel" <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote in message
>news:4A2### [at] hotmailcom...
>> On 6-6-2009 23:46, Stephen wrote:
>> > On Sat, 06 Jun 2009 23:06:18 +0200, andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom>
>wrote:
>
>> >> I always say that a discussion between two
>> >
>> > If Warp had not posted, there would have been at least 4 posts less.
>
>> But Warp's post was a metapost (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MetaPost,
>> thanks Don for that) or an attempt to hijack a thread that was about
>> something he does not want anybody to discuss.
>
>Would I be correct in suggesting that yours is than a meta-metapost?
>

Thus making yours a meta^3post whereas this is not a meta^4post as it is on the
same subject. I see it all now. There is a Grand Creator.

I'm currently reading The Science of Discworld III - Darwin's Watch.
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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Jim Henderson wrote:
> Certainly if you take the position about all topics that your mind is 
> made up and that you'll never ever change your mind or be convinced 
> otherwise. ;-)

Except that on a lot of those topics, the discussion seems to get heated 
regardless. I can be utterly convinced that chinese take-out is the bee's 
knees, and you can think it's the most awful food around, and we won't have 
anyone shouting down the other about it.

I think it's only when you're *not* utterly convinced but feel like you 
*should* be that the real fights start.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!

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On Sun, 07 Jun 2009 09:50:53 -0700, Darren New wrote:

> Jim Henderson wrote:
>> Certainly if you take the position about all topics that your mind is
>> made up and that you'll never ever change your mind or be convinced
>> otherwise. ;-)
> 
> Except that on a lot of those topics, the discussion seems to get heated
> regardless. I can be utterly convinced that chinese take-out is the
> bee's knees, and you can think it's the most awful food around, and we
> won't have anyone shouting down the other about it.
> 
> I think it's only when you're *not* utterly convinced but feel like you
> *should* be that the real fights start.

Well, yeah, but I was recalling something that somebody said about their 
opinions never having been changed as a result of an online 
discussion. ;-)

Jim

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somebody <x### [at] ycom> wrote:
> I understand what you are saying, but just to be the devil's advocate,
> doesn't pretty much any kind of discussion on usenet follow the same
> pattern?

  Not really. Sometimes eg. someone makes a question about something he
doesn't know, and gets an answer.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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"gregjohn" <pte### [at] yahoocom> wrote:
> "alphaQuad" <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote:
>
> I think you miss some details:
>> ... just so you can have a defining example ...
>
> I don't think this is very high on the list of reasons Jesus had to die.
>
>
> > ...a temper tantrum in the temple, the only case they had
> > on him and only excuse for the nailing ...
>
> Charges were blasphemy and treason.

Pilate said, (not word for word) something like, this is the same man that you
welcomed just so many days ago and now you want him killed, explain this
insanity to me. The one previously speaking didn't know what to say, another
steps forward and says, you have not heard the worst of his crimes, he broke
our Sabbath laws.

Now granted how vague that is, but coupled with the notion that no one wanted
him until the temple incident occurred and he was arrested 3 days afterwards,
it is an easy step to believe that if he just went on a picnic that day instead
of ...

The lesson is clear and obvious and the solution well delineated.

Blasphemy and treason seem to me to be after-thoughts, or some other term on the
tip of my tongue for which I fail to form words.

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Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:
> Warp wrote:
> > This kind of thread can cause no good.
>
> Just out of curiosity, and I ask this as an atheist asking an intelligent
> person of faith, do you think it's ever possible to have a useful discussion
> between disagreeing parties? :-)
>
> I find discussing it can be useful to me, not because it makes me change my
> mind or because I change someone else's mind, but because it lets me
> understand the other point of view better, and lets me deal with religion
> better.
>
> --
>    Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
>    There's no CD like OCD, there's no CD I knoooow!

Yes you have a point, at least when one of the parties feels threatened by new
ideas. The reason they feel threatened is that their beliefs, in which they are
not very secure, are threatened. The next step is realizing their own
gullibility. Few if any are willing to face such a weakness and vulnerability.
Being loving means vulnerability.

So you can see how an unloving person would easily jump to wanting to kill the
thread saying that it can only cause flame wars. Don't worry I am sitting right
here with a fire extinguisher.

If all were secure in their beliefs it could only be an interesting and humorous
discussion.

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alphaQuad <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote:
> Yes you have a point, at least when one of the parties feels threatened by new
> ideas. The reason they feel threatened is that their beliefs, in which they are
> not very secure, are threatened. The next step is realizing their own
> gullibility. Few if any are willing to face such a weakness and vulnerability.
> Being loving means vulnerability.

> So you can see how an unloving person would easily jump to wanting to kill the
> thread saying that it can only cause flame wars. Don't worry I am sitting right
> here with a fire extinguisher.

> If all were secure in their beliefs it could only be an interesting and humorous
> discussion.

  Your trolling is way too transparent. Good try, but you have still way
to go before becoming a true pro.

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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