>> Either ACID-compliance is a good thing, or it isn't. (I'm of the view 
>> that it is, but apparently I'm in the minority here...)
> 
> It's a good thing if you need it. It's an unnecessary burden if you 
> don't. That's what I was trying to come away with.
> 
> Now, most people *do* need ACID, or they wouldn't be using a database in 
> the first place. (Your text editor isn't ACID, is it?)  But there are 
> increasingly more places that are willing to give up consistency in 
> favor of scalability.

See, I always thought that giving up on ACID was basically saying "yes, 
my data *will* get corrupted at some point", which would seem rather bad.

>> Or rather, only *my* posts are moderated. (Several people have at 
>> various times mentioned the lack of moderation, so I think it's only me.)
> 
> It's either moderated or it isn't. Now, maybe some peoples' posts are 
> auto-approved, but they're still moderated. If it's an NNTP forum, you 
> can tell by looking at the headers.

SMTP, unfortunately.

I did suggest it should be changed to NNTP, but I got flamed.

NNTP has the nice property that you can be as chatty as you damned well 
like, and if other people aren't interested, they can just ignore that 
thread. SMTP does not have this property.

>> [Uh... this thread started, how exactly? How long as Mr Quad been 
>> hanging around here?]
> 
> Well, OK. But he doesn't troll about on-topic stuff, even in off-topic. :-)

WTF *is* he on about, actually??

...wait, don't answer that.

>> I wouldn't mind, but I actually think Haskell is the coolest thing 
>> ever to exist, and I just want to help it take over the world. For my 
>> trouble, I get accused of being a troll. How did my message get this 
>> mutilated in transit??
> 
> Hard to say without seeing what you posted. What did you post?

Needless to say, I can't show you everything I've said in the last 3 
years. (My latest post was simply written too hurridly, and is ambiguous 
in ways which, in hindsight, are rather unfortunate.)

-- 
http://blog.orphi.me.uk/
http://www.zazzle.com/MathematicalOrchid*

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
>>   I'm not always right. Making yourself look smarter than you really are
>> is an art.
> 
> You seem to be right far more often than me.

I think the point is that word "seem" in there. ;-)

> really does is reinforce your point: you must memorise what the compiler 
> does and does not optimise to get good code.)

That's true of all high-level languages. The difference between high-level 
and low-level languages is that high-level languages can improve efficiency 
by improving the compiler far more than low-level languages can.

> end up with the impression that GHC is this super-powerful compiler that 
> can make anything go fast.

Possibly because it started out so woefully slow?

> to build a working nontrivial parser in any other language.) But maybe 

Did you see the link I posted about writing a compiler for .NET? He goes 
thru the whole thing, from lexer to code generation, on one web page.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

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Orchid XP v8 wrote:
> See, I always thought that giving up on ACID was basically saying "yes, 
> my data *will* get corrupted at some point", which would seem rather bad.

Only if your data is vital. That's kind of the point I'm making. If your 
data is (for example) google's search cache, it doesn't matter if it's 
corrupted *temporarily*.  It doesn't matter if someone on the west coast 
sees the old version of your facebook page for 10 minutes after you change 
it on the east coast.

> NNTP has the nice property that you can be as chatty as you damned well 
> like, and if other people aren't interested, they can just ignore that 
> thread. SMTP does not have this property.

True.

> WTF *is* he on about, actually??
> ...wait, don't answer that.

I have known a number of people like that. It was always, quite literally, 
brain damage. Hence peoples' comments about taking his medications.

> Needless to say, I can't show you everything I've said in the last 3 
> years. (My latest post was simply written too hurridly, and is ambiguous 
> in ways which, in hindsight, are rather unfortunate.)

Take more care with the perfectionists who code Haskell compilers, then. :-)

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

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Orchid XP v8 escreveu:
>> Haskell doesn't suck.  It sucks a lot less than C++, certainly.  Being 
>> slower doesn't mean it sucks.  The higher-level the language and more 
>> away from the underlying low-level metal, the better.  Haskell sucks a 
>> lot less performance-wise than most other very high-level languages.
> 
> Faster than Java, C#, F#, Erlang, Clean, Lisp... But still not quite as 
> fast as C.

Nothing is faster than C, some wise men said. ;)

> And let's face it, millions of people can program in C. Why bother 
> learning Haskell?

Oh, you have a misunderstanding there:  far less people program today in 
C rather than Java or C#.  About just those poor souls coding Unix 
infrastructure... :P

>> Being not as intelligent as truly intelligent people is not the same 
>> as being stupid.  Endlessly pestering such bright people over 
>> reasonably basic stuff you still don't understand... well, that's 
>> stupid. ;)
> 
> ...and when nemesis says I'm stupid, I really *don't* care. :-P

Read again.

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nemesis wrote:
> Nothing is faster than C, some wise men said. ;)

Assembler is.

-- 
   Darren New, San Diego CA, USA (PST)
   "Ouch ouch ouch!"
   "What's wrong? Noodles too hot?"
   "No, I have Chopstick Tunnel Syndrome."

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On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 13:53:08 -0800, Darren New <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote:

>nemesis wrote:
>> Nothing is faster than C, some wise men said. ;)
>
>Assembler is.

I raise you "Machine code" :)
-- 

Regards
     Stephen

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"Darren New" <dne### [at] sanrrcom> wrote in message 
news:4999e046$1@news.povray.org...
> nemesis wrote:
>> Nothing is faster than C, some wise men said. ;)
>
> Assembler is.

ya beat me to it .....

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Darren New wrote:
> nemesis wrote:
>> Nothing is faster than C, some wise men said. ;)
> 
> Assembler is.

That's relative. ;)

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> It got to the point where I'd see a post from Warp saying that Haskell 
> sucks because of X, and I'd spent half an hour trying to come up with a 
> reason why X is false. It ceased to be about the truth, and about wanting 
> to be right. I *wanted* Haskell to be the best.
>
> But wanting something to be true doesn't make it true. And, unfortunately 
> for me, Warp is right, as usual. Haskell sucks. And no amount of words 
> from me is going to change it. My pride and joy actually sucks, and I 
> can't do anything about it.

It's not rare for programmers to take something they like and try to prove 
to everyone else that it's the best. You're not alone in doing that. You're 
doing two things here though:

 - Realizing that you made a mistake (good)
 - Telling yourself that you're hopeless because of it (bad).

Just because you may have lost some rationality by over-defending haskell 
doesn't mean that you've wasted your time learning it, or even that it's a 
bad language. You've gotta stop dragging yourself down like that. Identify 
your mistakes, learn from them, and move on. Haskell is still useful and 
you're better off for knowing it.

 - Slime
 [ http://www.slimeland.com/ ]

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On Mon, 16 Feb 2009 03:17:15 -0800, Slime wrote:

> Why do we keep wasting time with this troll?

That's a good question, Slime.  I've been wondering that myself.

When someone comes into a community and has all the social graces of a 
retarded chicken on crack, takes time to personally insult people (see 
recent posts to me in p.b.i for some recent samples of his so-called 
"wit"), it seems that the community - or the community leadership - needs 
to step in.  Personally, I'd look for a way to ban his ass from here, but 
I know how difficult that can be and often that just feeds the troll and 
gives them more fuel.

Normally, I just ignore him.  I wish everyone else would do the same, 
maybe then, just maybe, he'd go away.  He's not "enlightened" or 
"enlightening", he's an annoyance not worth my time or effort.

Ignoring him is the most effective solution.

Jim

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