Tim Cook wrote:
> somebody wrote:
>> "alphaQuad" <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote in message
>>
>>> Find out what the shooter had been given by the AMA Quacks.
>>> I am certain that you will find he was given fluorides or sulfides in
>> place of
>>> real medicine.
>>
>> OK, you win the cake for coming up with the most "original" scapegoat, in
>> the inevitable goat safari that automatically ensues any and all such
>> incidents. I sure thought something involving lambda calculus would be 
>> named
>> before AMA...
> 
> Another thing I wonder...all these violent acts done by people 
> supposedly on medication, what percentage of people on that medication 
> do they represent?  How many people would be doing violent acts if 
> *nobody* were on those medications?
> 
> To wit:
> 
> Suppose 5 of 500,000 people on Prozac end up going on shooting rampages.
> Suppose those 5 are the only incidents in a 10-year period, so one could 
> blame Prozac as being a cause.
> But!  Suppose if none of those 500,000 people were on Prozac?  Would 
> there be 50 rampages in the same time period?  More?
> 
> It's like taser-related deaths vs. potential gun-related deaths were 
> tasers not in use.  If there are more non-fatal taser uses than likely 
> fatal gun uses, you go with the taser, even if you get a few deaths.
> 
We used to have a cartoon in the department stating that 19% of driving 
accidents happened while being drunk and implying that there is a simple 
way to reduce the number of accidents by 81%

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> You know, to outsiders it seems like this kind of thing has become routine 
> in
> America.

From the BBC article:

"Last Friday, a woman shot dead two fellow students before killing herself 
at Louisiana Technical College in Baton Rouge. In Memphis, Tennessee, a 
17-year-old is accused of shooting and critically wounding a student on 
Monday, and a 15-year-old was shot at a junior high school in California on 
Tuesday."

The whole culture in the US seems different regarding guns.  The only guns 
I've ever seen in my life are the ones the police carry.  I don't know 
anyone who has a gun, I don't know anyone who could get me a gun if I wanted 
one.  I'm sure most people round here are the same.  Unless you are in some 
large criminal gang, I just don't think you can get hold of a gun.

These seem like previously "normal" people before they do these shootings, 
where do they get the guns from?

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alphaQuad <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote:
> This post is goddamn important so if any of you don?t like it, TS, then you are
> also part of the problem.

  Even at the risk of sounding like a jerk, maybe you might not want to
use that kind of expression.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma#Examples

-- 
                                                          - Warp

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And lo on Fri, 15 Feb 2008 03:32:49 -0000, Tim Cook <z99### [at] gmailcom>  
did spake, saying:

> alphaQuad wrote:
>> Author Bill Cooper, "Behold A Pale Horse": "In every instance that I  
>> have
>> investigated -- the incident at the women's school in Canada, the  
>> shopping mall
>> in Canada, the Stockton, California, massacre, and the murder of Rabbi  
>> Meir
>> Kahane -- the shooters were all ex-mental patients or were current  
>> mental
>> patients who were all on the drug Prozac."
>
> Most significant phrase in this comment: "that I have investigated".
>
> *smirk*
>
> If you only investigate the ones that were ex-mental patients or current  
> mental patients, all on Prozac, well...

Yeah I spotted that too, there can be a world of difference between  
incidents reported and incidents investigated. Does he then go on to  
investigate why these people are ex-/mental patients? Otherwise all this  
could suggest is that Prozac doesn't always work, colour me stunned!

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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And lo on Fri, 15 Feb 2008 09:08:56 -0000, scott <sco### [at] laptopcom> did  
spake, saying:

>> You know, to outsiders it seems like this kind of thing has become  
>> routine in
>> America.
>
> From the BBC article:
>
> "Last Friday, a woman shot dead two fellow students before killing  
> herself at Louisiana Technical College in Baton Rouge. In Memphis,  
> Tennessee, a 17-year-old is accused of shooting and critically wounding  
> a student on Monday, and a 15-year-old was shot at a junior high school  
> in California on Tuesday."
>
> The whole culture in the US seems different regarding guns.

And it's this that seems to be more the problem then simple ownership

>  The only guns I've ever seen in my life are the ones the police carry.   
> I don't know anyone who has a gun, I don't know anyone who could get me  
> a gun if I wanted one.

Midnight on level 2 of the multi-storey car-park, bring cash.

>  I'm sure most people round here are the same.  Unless you are in some  
> large criminal gang, I just don't think you can get hold of a gun.

Oo ar well I be in the country so we get a lot of shotguns and the odd  
rifle. No handguns of course since the ban. Incidently we seem to be  
getting increased reporting of stabbing incidents.

> These seem like previously "normal" people before they do these  
> shootings, where do they get the guns from?

Gunshops.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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"alphaQuad" <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote:
> My point is this ( and on that page )
>
> Author Bill Cooper, "Behold A Pale Horse": "In every instance that I have
> investigated -- the incident at the women's school in Canada, the shopping mall
> in Canada, the Stockton, California, massacre, and the murder of Rabbi Meir
> Kahane -- the shooters were all ex-mental patients or were current mental
> patients who were all on the drug Prozac."
>


Is the problem:
i) Insane (apologies if wrong word choice) people.  (Some insane people ate beef
hamburgers, some had Prozac)
ii) Prozac?

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"alphaQuad" <alp### [at] earthlinknet> wrote

> My point is this ( and on that page )
>
> Author Bill Cooper, "Behold A Pale Horse": "In every instance that I have
> investigated -- 

He can safely and truthfully say that, even if, especially if, he choses to
investigate only those instances that support his pet theory and help sell
his book. I have no clue who he is, or what the book is about, but phrases
like that need not and should not appear in proper research, ever.

> Add to the list Columbine's Eric Harris, Cho Seung-Hui at Virginia Tech,
and 2
> more deaths at NASA with a previous indent by a Fluorine-crazed astronut
> wearing space diapers. US legislators must dig the hell out of violence.

Even if true, how does that establish causality? By definition,
murder/suicide perpetrators have to be highly depressed. Thus depression is
the most likely and obvious cause, shootings and taking prozac are both the
result. Depression causes shootings, with low probability; depression causes
taking prozac, with high probability. Thus, majority of shooters will have
been taking prozac, even when shooting and prozac ingestion is not casually
related.

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> Gunshops.

Never seen one before, I presume even if I did find one they wouldn't sell 
one to me without me first doing some training and sanity-checking?  And I 
assume also they wouldn't sell a gun to a school kid?

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And lo on Fri, 15 Feb 2008 13:40:27 -0000, scott <sco### [at] laptopcom> did  
spake, saying:

>> Gunshops.
>
> Never seen one before,

Just flicking through we've around a dozen listed in the Yellow Pages and  
around half-a-dozen in the Phone Book which covers a more localised area.  
I knew of two personally.

> I presume even if I did find one they wouldn't sell one to me without me  
> first doing some training and sanity-checking?

Nope, however you do require a Shotgun or Firearm Certificate from the  
police first; they're the ones who do the 'sanity checking'.

> And I assume also they wouldn't sell a gun to a school kid?

As an under-17 wouldn't be able to get a certificate that would be a  
correct assumption.

-- 
Phil Cook

--
I once tried to be apathetic, but I just couldn't be bothered
http://flipc.blogspot.com

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alphaQuad wrote:

 > A bunch of pointless gobbeldygook that looks a lot like one of those
 > chain e-mails I dump from my inbox.

Wow. Paranoid much? Holy ... geezz. wow. I'm at a loss for words. Just 
wow. Mind control drugs? Are you serious?

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