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http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l33178.htm
"Certain forms of conduct outlined below committed for a racist or
xenophobic purpose will be punishable as criminal offences:
...
- public dissemination or distribution of tracts, pictures or other
material containing expressions of racism and xenophobia"
Note that it doesn't say "material which incites racism and xenophobia",
it says "material containing expressions of racism and xenophobia".
Expressing your opinion is a thought crime. Welcome Big Brother.
Some of the punishments are even scarier:
"- alternative sanctions such as community service or participation in
training courses"
Yes, I am being a paranoid. This is all normal and good. Just ignore
everything.
--
- Warp
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Warp wrote:
> http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l33178.htm
>
> "Certain forms of conduct outlined below committed for a racist or
> xenophobic purpose will be punishable as criminal offences:
> ...
> - public dissemination or distribution of tracts, pictures or other
> material containing expressions of racism and xenophobia"
>
> Note that it doesn't say "material which incites racism and xenophobia",
> it says "material containing expressions of racism and xenophobia".
> Expressing your opinion is a thought crime. Welcome Big Brother.
Ouch - so this got passed?
Reminds me of some draconian laws regarding terrorism. Scary.
> Some of the punishments are even scarier:
>
> "- alternative sanctions such as community service or participation in
> training courses"
Community service may be good. Are the training courses what's worrying
you?
--
My sister opened a computer store in Hawaii. She sells C shells down by
the seashore.
/\ /\ /\ /
/ \/ \ u e e n / \/ a w a z
>>>>>>mue### [at] nawaz org<<<<<<
anl
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Warp wrote:
> http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l33178.htm
>
> "Certain forms of conduct outlined below committed for a racist or
> xenophobic purpose will be punishable as criminal offences:
> ...
> - public dissemination or distribution of tracts, pictures or other
> material containing expressions of racism and xenophobia"
>
> Note that it doesn't say "material which incites racism and xenophobia",
That is just 3 lines above it.
> it says "material containing expressions of racism and xenophobia".
> Expressing your opinion is a thought crime. Welcome Big Brother.
I think you misinterpret that. You can still believe that only just a
negligible number of Jews died in WW2. You can privately and publicly
express that. The only thing you can not do is write that down in a
pamphlet and hand that out in the streets. Makes sense to me.
>
> Some of the punishments are even scarier:
>
> "- alternative sanctions such as community service or participation in
> training courses"
This is the point where I start doubting that you are serious.
>
> Yes, I am being a paranoid. This is all normal and good. Just ignore
> everything.
>
And this is where I am completely lost. I recognize all words but in
this order they don't seem to make sense.
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Warp wrote:
> http://europa.eu/scadplus/leg/en/lvb/l33178.htm
>
> "Certain forms of conduct outlined below committed for a racist or
> xenophobic purpose will be punishable as criminal offences:
> ...
> - public dissemination or distribution of tracts, pictures or other
> material containing expressions of racism and xenophobia"
>
> Note that it doesn't say "material which incites racism and xenophobia",
> it says "material containing expressions of racism and xenophobia".
> Expressing your opinion is a thought crime. Welcome Big Brother.
>
> Some of the punishments are even scarier:
>
> "- alternative sanctions such as community service or participation in
> training courses"
>
> Yes, I am being a paranoid. This is all normal and good. Just ignore
> everything.
"Racism and xenophobia will mean belief in race colour, descent,
religion or belief, national or ethnic origin as a factor determining
aversion to individuals.
Certain forms of conduct outlined below committed for a racist or
xenophobic purpose will be punishable as criminal offences:
* public incitement to violence or hatred;
* public insults or threats;
* public condoning of genocide or crimes against humanity as
defined in the Statute of the International Criminal Court;
* public dissemination or distribution of tracts, pictures or other
material containing expressions of racism and xenophobia;
* directing of a racist or xenophobic group (by "group" is meant a
structured organisation consisting of at least two persons established
for a specific period).
Instigating, aiding, abetting or attempting to commit the above offences
will also be punishable."
This is to say, they're specifically interested in stopping the next
Nazi regime, not playing Big Brother to your personal dislike of
Mohammed McMuslim (unless you're trying to convince people that all
Muslims are bad as a side-effect of your personal dislike, and let's go
get 'em ye olde angry mob). Could they have phrased their framework a
little better? Sure. Will corrupt politicians abuse the letter of the
law while ignoring the spirit of the law? They're politicians, ain't
they? Thing is, it doesn't matter *what* the law says; it'll be warped
in some manner by corrupt officials. C'est la vie.
--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.digitalartsuk.com
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> Warp wrote:
>> Yes, I am being a paranoid. This is all normal and good. Just ignore
>> everything.
>>
> And this is where I am completely lost. I recognize all words but in
> this order they don't seem to make sense.
I think that last sentence is commonly known as "sarcasm"
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andrel <a_l### [at] hotmailcom> wrote:
> I think you misinterpret that. You can still believe that only just a
> negligible number of Jews died in WW2. You can privately and publicly
> express that. The only thing you can not do is write that down in a
> pamphlet and hand that out in the streets. Makes sense to me.
I'm not saying it's a good thing that wackos can spread their conspiracy
theories. I'm just worried about how far they will go with this questionable
limiting of freedom of expression.
If someone writes in his webpage his opinion that immigration is
detrimental to the western society, can that be considered "material
containing expressions of xenophobia"? Technically it *is* xenophobia
(regardless of whether it's based on rational argumentation or not).
> > Yes, I am being a paranoid. This is all normal and good. Just ignore
> > everything.
> >
> And this is where I am completely lost. I recognize all words but in
> this order they don't seem to make sense.
It was sarcasm.
--
- Warp
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Tim Cook <z99### [at] bellsouthnet> wrote:
> This is to say, they're specifically interested in stopping the next
> Nazi regime
By building up a similar regime of censorship, propaganda and limitation
of basic human rights.
Honestly, how probable it is, in the current world, that a "nazi regime"
can form, even without these types of totalitarian laws, especially given
that we are talking about Europe? I think it's next to nil.
If a country starts behaving in ways similar to the nazi party, it will
quickly be shut down by surrounding countries. I don't believe there is
any danger of this happening.
> not playing Big Brother to your personal dislike of
> Mohammed McMuslim
They will attack any webpages which are critical of islam and/or
immigration in general, using the new laws. Heck, it's happening already
even without any supporting laws, there isn't even need to predict it. When
their behavior gets de jure support, it can only become ten times worse.
(We have precedent: The RIAA and the DMCA.)
--
- Warp
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Warp escribió:
> (We have precedent: The RIAA and the DMCA.)
>
http://mafiaa.org/
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Warp wrote:
> If someone writes in his webpage his opinion that immigration is
> detrimental to the western society, can that be considered "material
> containing expressions of xenophobia"? Technically it *is* xenophobia
> (regardless of whether it's based on rational argumentation or not).
I'd say it depends on how vehement it is. If it's just "ho hum, I don't
really like these immigrants, they're taking our jobs and diluting our
culture the way cultures have been being diluted and turned into what
are really other cultures since forever", it'll have a different
reception than "stupid foreigners with their lazy lifestyles that are
incapable of doing anything on their own merit that are robbing our pure
and decent hardworking close families and talking so I can't understand
them and we gotta drive them out and bomb their homelands and cross the
street when you see one on the sidewalk because they're dirty and so forth".
--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.digitalartsuk.com
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Warp wrote:
> Honestly, how probable it is, in the current world, that a "nazi regime"
> can form, even without these types of totalitarian laws, especially given
> that we are talking about Europe? I think it's next to nil.
> If a country starts behaving in ways similar to the nazi party, it will
> quickly be shut down by surrounding countries. I don't believe there is
> any danger of this happening.
Considering the Nazi regime got its foothold because common folk had
justified resentment over how they perceived the government was not
handling things, I'd say it's pretty likely, considering the vocality of
a good number of 'ordinary' Europeans against supposed police states and
insisting that 'freedom of speech' is more important than the reality of
needing to reduce hatred of 'others' (which is ironically amplified by
the legislative efforts, but that doesn't mean what the legislation is
trying to accomplish is bad).
--
Tim Cook
http://empyrean.digitalartsuk.com
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